Could someone please explain exactly what a 'Closed Aviary' is and how it differs from an open or regular (not sure what they're called) Aviary? Thanks!

Edited to add: I mean a breeding aviary, not an outside play area.

Karen - most of our breeders have closed aviaries (actually, I think they all are closed). This means that they do not allow outside people into their aviaries. They also do not bring in new birds; rather, they raise their breeders from their own offspring.

That is the way I understand the term also Karen.

also if they take a bird out , Like a baby to a show or for a person to buy , It does not go back in.
Jack

Exactly as stated above. In the event of fresh genes needed, the new birds will go through a separate quarantine facility, probably better than those operated by the state for about 90 days with ALL the tests done. In this country the babies that came from the aviary and not even raised near the parents. Bio cleaners are also used before entering the aviary.

I would like to point out the pet store point of view. There's more to it when purchasing from a closed aviary.

Even if you buy birds from a closed aviary THEIR birds can be at risk of diseases too if they ship on a plane. They are shipped with all kinds of OTHER birds from breeders and wholesalers. So it really depends on the credibility and proven record of the aviary you're using. You usually know the "great ones" (like Dr Clubbs birds were known to be). And I'm sure there are other less famous breeders too with strong stock.

Because you cannot just demand the airline ship your birds alone without any other birds on there from less reputable places. AND normally shipping is done on specific days by specific airlines. Especially in the wholesale business I'm not talking about one random bird but it's good to ask.

So your birds are in the same cargo area with potentially infectious birds. THIS is why closed aviary birds who are being shipped have to be in excellent condition. They are at also at risk for being lost and flight delays and extreme stress. This is not unheard of by any means.

IF they are stressed from travel, not to mention a delay like that (how bout UNFED)...they are at even greater risk of catching something from their planemates. So you look for birds who probably will stress less.

Knowing what aviary SPECIFICALLY with proof...your birds are coming from is your best defense. Knowing the reputation of the breeder and that they have strong stock.

Because on the plane they will be with less reputable breeders and wholesalers stock and we're talking gigantic numbers. Like hundreds of birds squeezed into a box by the less reputable wholesalers.

I never had a bird in my store shipped from a plane. That's not to say they're all bad if they go on a plane but again, you want to only use breeders whose birds can "sail through it" without getting infected by their planemates.

My store was small about 850 square feet and I only carried about 10 Tiels and parrots at a time. And about 10 Budgies. Maybe 2 Canaries. About 10 finches depending on who fights. An employee bred Lovebirds and I had 3 pairs living there.

I attribute this to why I never had any problems with birds or sickness. Never one time. And the fact that the parents at the time were usually wild caught with a much stronger gene pool. And my vet who was a friend living right around the corner and shopping from me.

I was lucky enough to have one local breeder for parrots and one for Budgies and tiels. They lived near me and I went to their homes. They had what you could call closed aviaries by standards of 10 years ago. It's still the same. They came to my store, we partnered on what to offer and when. And why. There weren't alot of pet stores around and they also sold privately to people now and then.

When a customer needed say, a canary or finch I got them from Shultz's near my home (bird store), took them home, and delivered them and told them that and gave them the paperwork.

Sometimes your birds band will allow you to find the breeder but it's tricky to find. I think there's a site or something you can buy to find that but I'm not sure since I haven't done it.

Exactly, Cindy. Which is why we do the testing of all our birds - not because we do not deal with reputable breeders, but because our birds could be on the same plane with birds from a broker or other source who may not be so reputable.

And might I point out that it is best to wait 7-10 days before testing to allow any diseases to surface.

As for the gigantic numbers, I think that may have been a pattern years ago. I believe there are only 2-3 bird shipments allowed per flight nowadays. Not sure, but I don't believe the airlines allow hundreds of birds to be squeezed into a box as they are responsible for the safe arrival of these birds.

Also, most reputable breeders include tons of grapes, oranges and munchie-type food for the birds in the event of a delay to keep them hydrated. I would say the stress outweighs the missing of a feeding to be a contributing factor to a bird's immune system becoming compromised.

See, I knew we could agree on alot!

Kathie, years ago people would draw their own bloodwork and do their own swabs. Then deliver them to the vet. I understood that because it would be so expensive to pay for vet time on every single bird.

(granted at that time there were fewer tests, we couldnt even DNA they were pulling tail feathers for that in Tiels LOL)

Is it still that way or do you have to pay a vet to come to you or for an office visit for every single bird to draw blood and swab?

(or do they do group swabs of birds that came in together?)

In South Africa I can draw my own blood and send to the lab. I can send up to 5 kits in for a pooled sample test. Discount is given for more than 1 test type so I can send up to 5 kits (1 per bird) of which I can pool for 4 different diseases of my choice and then get separate dna sex for each bird. Currently there is a 2 for one special so I end up paying for 2 tests (the 4 pooled disease) and 5 dna.
Full certificates are only issued when the blood is sent and drawn by a vet. Since this is just for my information the report is ok. If something ever came back positive I would have to test (by a vet) each and every bird separately listed in the sample, and pay again. This is the lab used in South Africa. Dr York was instrumental in the technology used in the design of the pbfd test. MDS also operates in Australia.


Molecular Diagnostic Services

Anybody know how this works in CA? (Re: labs & doing my own swabs / draws?)

What should I test for?
And what will I actually "know" from the results for each different disease???
Meaning is the test telling me the bird has been exposed? Is actively sick? Is potentially contageous, even if not sick itself?
I'd like to know the tests as well as the practical utility of each, so I can decide what is worth testing for.

My AV doesn't test for specific diseases as part of his ($300 per bird) "well-birdie" get established visit. He does a blood chemistry work up (inc CBC) as a general health screening tool, and then does more testing if the bird shows signs of illness in the blood work.

They've also told me that there are several diseases (Asper among them - I don't remember all the rest) where you can spend many hundreds if not thousands of dollars & still not completely 100 percent rule it out. Pstticosis (sp) is another. Unless the bird has never even been exposed (unlikely in wild caught imports). But otherwise the bird will show antibodies for exposure. Which doesn't mean he has the disease at all.

I know in cats, they can test (using a similar antibody titer type of test, same principle as used for the psitticosis test) for FIP. They at first destroyed thousands of cats, including much beloved pets, because they tested positive. Later they learned this only meant exposure, and that it was fairly common for a cat to have been exposed. It didn't mean the cat was able to pass the disease, much less actively sick. So all those animals were euthanized unnecessarily, because the test was so new they didn't realize how common exposure was.

So I'm wary of just testing for everything possible. I'm also wary about rushing out & vaccinating either, due to a problem with the FIP vaccine when it was new. I lost a 5 yr old formerly totally healthy cat to that vaccine. My point is just that I've been burned on new technology before, so while I'm glad when new stuff comes out for birds, I'm still skeptical, till it has a proven track record.

But I'm also highly skeptical of the worth of "just" doing quarantine, without testing for disease. I know someone who (years back, before testing was available) lost his entire flock to PBFD. After having quarantined the carrier bird for 90 days! When you're dealing with slow moving diseases, you may not see much at all in the quarantine period.

In the case of the PBFD, the breeder knew the bird had been exposed, but was unethical and didn't tell him. To me this highlights the extreme importance of the reputation of the breeder you're working with!

I'm not breeding. (At least not yet.) Right now, I'm partnering with a friend who does small animal rescue through her store (house rabbits, rats etc.) and I'm doing the bird side of our non-profit. We're doing rescue/rehab/foster-to-adopt type of work. So maintaining a "closed" aviary is pretty much out of the question. That would kinda defeat the purpose (which is to move birds through & find them new homes).

But obviously I still want to protect my own companion birds as best I can!!

I do have a separate room, at the opposite end of the house from my own bird room for fosters, new intakes etc. But if something is airborne or viral my own birds are still going to be at risk. (Just the size of viral particles as well as their inate hardiness makes it way harder to prevent physical transfer.) I know about changing clothes, showering etc. But realistically, viral particles can't be killed and are very hard to prevent from moving about.

Also, finances could eventually end up being an issue, if the testing was too extensive for each new bird coming through.
So I want to test (and quarantine too of course!) but I want to do it judiciously in a cost-effective manner. Advice?