Thank you! I know there are so many bird flippers out there (not that kind) but I truely believe these people love her.

Ya know, I was thinking the same thing...I'm thinking yes, b/c females in the wild flock together and the males flock together (or so I've read). But I mean, I'm not really looking for the 'buddy buddy' thing, just more of them being content in the same room with one another.

Oh, if females flock together, that's promising. I know the females' reputation is more fierce, but perhaps that's in relation to the male. I think electus are very beautiful, but know little about them.

I just had to comment on the above quote, as many of you know I always feel a need to do - on related subjects and posts.

But what about what the bird instinctively wants? Why are some people, like the one that originally made the above statement, so clueless about the needs and desires of the bird. These same people show how much they "love" this bird, don't they (lol) - shown by them taking chances and endangering this bird's life by letting it walk next to Rotties, so what do they know anyway.

The facts of the matter are (and this is NOT personal opinion): A life in a large, safe, properly lit, indoor or outdoor aviary with an excellent diet and mind stimulating toys, fully flighted and allowed to breed and raise a family (along with interaction with a human if that human wants to be a close part of the bird's life) is the ideal IMO (next to being totally free of course). Otherwise this simple "daily relationship with a loving human" - usually clipped, living in improper light, unnecessarily kootchie-cooed, endangered by the other family pets, substandard diet (to include human junk food because the bird may "like it") is way over-rated and not the first choice of any "normal" bird or in the best interests of any bird.

Of course if the bird was to wind up with a breeder who only cared about the buck and stuck the bird in a small cage just to breed, that is a different story. But a life with a caring person who does it right/best - who also allows breeding, cannot be beat.

Btw, don't know if I missed it or not but I'm curious as to what these people are asking for this bird in $$ - if ya don't mind saying that is. Around here a female Ekkie costs in the neighborhood of $750 from a "breeder".

Kiwi is gorgeous !! GL Dom !!

~J~ In my limited experience, I have not seen nor heard about too many breeders who provide an optimal life for their birds. When you are in the business of breeding and selling, that is exactly what it is... a business. They are trying to find a home for a very socialized, person oriented bird. If you look at the Kiwi page, you can see that this is a human imprinted bird.

Hopefully Randi, one of these days, the "business" type of breeder you mentioned will be outlawed/shut down, asap would make me the happiest.

One of my points was some people should maybe choose their words a bit more carefully, as the person who made the statement (that I had issue with) did not. But then again, maybe I should cut them some slack if they fit into the "clueless" category - as so many bird-keepers and "breeders" do.

There are in fact people out in the bird world that do give their birds all they should have and who do provide the necessities & conditions a bird needs which allows them to breed if the bird chooses to raise a family. Most people would just simply and erroneously label us as "breeders" (lumped in with the common type). Negative conotations which usually accompanies that word these days would be envisioned & attached by most. A bad or poor life would also be envisioned regarding the birds. So, I was just basically trying to point out that this person should have clarified their words to not rule out the fact that if a person who does it best could be found to rehome this bird to = who will allow full flight and a chance for a bird to raise a family one day, this would be the best possible situation for almost any bird. I don't even think you would argue that? I personally believe that "imprints" can be somewhat modified over time (maybe even eliminated) with dedicated commitment to the process, especially if started fairly early in a bird's life (and it may not be too late with this bird). I can see from the photos of Kiwi that she is very used to human interaction and may always seek it - to some extent during her life. I want to also express some caution about Ekkie hens: they are hard-wired to reproduce and suppression of that drive can cause some negative behaviors. Raddaughter will want to research this issue a lot if she has not already done so, as it really is something that cannot be ignored for the sake of the bird. If I were her, I would ask the relinquishers many questions about the hormonal behaviors of this bird and if she hears that there are none, I would be a bit suspicious about that. This bird is sexually mature and I'm betting the keepers have had to already contend with her drive to nest. I'm just saying to be prepared to deal and cope with her hormonal behaviors because I'm betting she's experiencing them and her placement from the only home she has known for 7 years is probably going to confuse her for a while. Based on the photos on Kiwi's page, I would not be surprised if she views one of those humans as her mate.

Raddaughter, did you by chance see the documentary on PBS called Parrots from the Land of Oz? It had a segment on Ekkies in the wild that I think you would find interesting. It featured a female Ekkie who was fed and bred by many different males while she was nesting and yet something like 18 or 19 of her 24 babies produced over an 8 year period (I think I got that number right) were fathered by the same male. This suggests to me (although the documentary did not say) that an Ekkie hen does bond rather strongly with a male. She may dally with others but it would seem her heart belongs to one (or mostly to one - LOL). The documentary also said that she nested for around 9 months out of the year!

If I were you, I'd try to find people who have kept 2 female Ekkies as pets in the same house and see what they say about that. You might even pose your question on a dedicated EKkie board like the Land Of Vos. I'm thinking that the females may be very competitive over nesting sites and that this could cause some headaches for you down the road but I don't know for sure.

Side note (directly related or not): People who have the best interests of their flock members in mind by allowing a bird all it should have, who do allow breeding as part of those interests and who do sell their occassional babies to great homes are NOT in it as a business, at least not the people I am talking about which I assume are not these breeders who sell their Ekkies for $1800-$2000 or whatever the figures were. Maybe these are the kind of people that we should be avoiding when it comes to purchasing a baby from and maybe we should be looking instead for the type person I mentioned to get our pet birds from - if we can't find a suitable bird to adopt from a rescue that is.

By the way, IMO & IME (as I alluded to earlier), most birds can have this human "imprint" diluted if the keeper does it right, diluted possibly near totality or at least enough so that they will truly be happier & healthier fully flighted (if they are physically capable of same) in a spacious aviary with their own kind - not always needing or wanting these humans that are BENT on forcing their human type "love" on them. I know some will say this human "love" is what the bird wants but that is only because they have been given no other choice. I believe that given the choice, a bird will generally prefer to hang out with other birds of its species, fly about to exercise its body and mind and forage around its environment for food. In my view, a bird's "imprinting" on humans is no justification for not giving it these other choices.

Clarification Note: Nothing I have said above relating to my feelings/opinion should in any way be misconstrued to mean that I think Raddaughter would not be a good choice for Kiwi to be rehomed/sold to. I think she would provide Kiwi a good life (I do hope she gets her if that is what she wants) and at the same time I also hope that she will one day allow Kiwi all the things and all the life experiences she should have.

__________________
Please remember the PM Feature and The Ignore User Option.

I always find it strange when people accept a statement like "we love her a lot and, as we don't have enough time to spend with her, we decided the best thing for her was to get new owners" but all this 'love' and 'concern' comes also with a hefty price tag ($1,500) that would, in fact, reimburse them for their largest expenses (bird and cage). How could you love a being that loves you back and sell it for a rather large amount of money?

In my experience, ekkies are the most difficult birds to accept other birds. I have experience with only two ekkies, a female that hated all other birds and only loved people, and a male that dislikes all other birds and just tolerates people, so I suggest you make sure the birds will get along before you commit yourself to a permanent arrangement. Your ekkie is already a chronic plucker so she is obviously a bird that gets easily upset and has difficulty coping, you would not want to create more stress for her.

It can be that some "breeders" are harder to find since we don't produce the maximum number of chicks, and sell to all and sundry. My babies are birds first and pets second, does not mean they less socialized just better balanced. Maybe i don't make money at it, but money is not everything.


This would make me so happy also, there is no need to mass produce velcro pets that have no knowledge of the bird they are.

Thank you everyone;

I have thought about it. Just to clarify: Lucy never plucked because of a nurological reason. Medication which was not needed caused her to pluck, and continue to pluck because a vet did not aknowlege her dietary needs. We have never ever seen her pluck for behavioral reasons and the behaviorists we have consulted in have come to the same conclusion we have. Now, with a proper diet, she is growing her feathers back. It is a process. I have only had her 10 months. Although that seems like a long time, I have been learning bit by bit. I am 15; I have never dealt with a bird with behavioral problems before. Its all trial and error for me. I don't want to make excuses, but I want to all to know and understand that.

Secondly, I have nothing against breeders (personally speaking). My opinion is, this bird is a people bird. She has never exibited wanting a mate, not to say she won't. What I feel is that aren't there enough birds already? I mean, we have all falled for the baby, but my preference is for adults. This bird isn't in need of 'rescuing', I was simply saying, "hey, look! This is something I'm seriously interested in; I wanted imput on her not questioning whether she should be given as a breeder or not. I don't want to offend anyone here; I just want you all to know that yes, I am doing my research. I am learning everyday. And, I have not made any final decisions, its all up in the air.

Thank you.

Dom, you are always a perfect lady and a great example for todays next generation. You are never offensive so dont worry. I thought the thread went a little off topic myself, but good points were made. I have to admit, I looked at Kiwi myself and thought she was a beauty and Id love to have her. Even though Ive said many times "IM DONE!" I know one day a very very special bird will need me, so Im saving room. Kiwi will find a good home. I know you would give her a perfect home, but stop just for a sec here. There will always be a bird hon, thats gonna grab your eye if not your heart. You have your whole life ahead of you still, and 3 really great birds that need you. Try to keep some room open for YOU! The next few years are really going to be busy ones and your time will be spread thin. Try not to make any life long commitments just yet sweetie. You have to trust me when I tell you all this.