I'm sure there are lot of opinions on this subject and I am not trying to open up a can of worms. I have to make a decision about having Dozy's wings clipped before she comes home. She is very sweet and want her to stay that way. The reason I want her clipped is I don't want her flying around the house and possibilby injuring herself. I have my tiel clipped. She used to fly around the house until one day she flew into a wall. Thank God she didn't hurt herself. Every since then I've kept her clipped. I don't want a drastic personaility change in the negative direction.

Thanks

Well since she's a baby she needs to fledge at least which any good breeder will tell you and that takes a long time. Just flying around the room for a week or two is nothing. An unfledged bird has a lifetime of challenges many believe.

As you saw from your Tiel she wont hurt herself bumping into a wall. All the nightmare stories you've heard are usually from people who clip and don't understand the mechanics of flying. And never even lived with a flighted bird. Or people who brought a bird into the home when it was all nervous or had a dog in the room or something else innapproprite and just opened the door and the bird got spooked. In fact although I've read a person or two say something like "they broke their neck" but when you ask the details I dont remember hearing any of them. Meaning it was the circumsances that the human made a mistake not the bird just up and flew into a wall or window with such extreme velocity it died..

I suggest you read the threads here and other boards from experienced members who have never clipped their birds and also from other members who clipped and decided to stop and the superior health benefits that your bird will gain from flying, a natural behavior. They wouldnt have wings if they couldn't learn to use them. Which is what fledging essentially means.

Not to mention the psychological benefits of the bird not having to beg to be moved from one spot to another, drag themselves around by their beak to go anywhere, and run away BACKWARDS when spooked by something versus a little side step flight six inches away that gives them confidence in their environment.

I really hope you'll rething the timeing at least since it sounds like you already think flying is dangerous (which it's not) because a Grey isnt the best flier by nature anyway and I believe will handicap her. And it doesnt have to be BEFORE coming home by a breeder at least bring her home and let a vet do it if at all, please.

My Parrotlets have been flying since the day they came here in fact I've never clipped a bird in my life and my grandmother had a budgie unclipped for 23 years. And the main cause of death to Parrotlets is accidents. They are bullets and never even come close to it. And in all the years I had a pet store at my vets advise I never clipped anybody there either except the Budgies since they were in an open playpen and small enough to fly out.

Also there is nothing as a "partial clip" because when you alter the feathers it's a clip and the bird doesnt have the full use of the wing dynamically the way it's designed so you cant go by that kind of flying cuz they are still flying "off" and not in balance.

Yes, it's a can of worms but good to study it seriously and decide what's best for her scientifically imo, otherwise you can't make an informed decision. And you can wait a really long time to regrow not to mention missing the fledging, ask Camille about Ollie who is 2 and just now filling in her wings from a baby clip. She can fly but it's been harder for her no doubt about it compensation for the gaps where the feathers were missing.

I'm sure you'll get alot of replies but read here I remember tons of threads on it.

I'll be a man of few words this time.

I ditto Cindy in all she said and repeat the part that says to read the threads here and elsewhere on the subject. According to the scientific research/studies on bird biology, psychology, physiology - besides good ole common sense and to include my own personal observations over 15 yrs. or so - all birds are healthier and happier fully flighted (if that is their nature) in a safe, as-stress-free-as-possible environment. Therefore it is up to you, as it is up to all of us, to provide that for them immediately or as soon as possible.

I also forgot to say that a Grey is the smartest parrot of all of them (unless the others are hiding it LOL) and you only have to show them something once or they only have to experience something once and remember it.

And when I say " not the best flyers" I meant they are heavy bodied birds and not hyper and like other thin bodied birds like conures, caiques, tiels etc they aren't going to woosh at something full force and especially for no reason.

There are good outdoor free flight Greys, Amazons and Ekkies who are able to master freeflight but you don't see it as much as say, a Macaw.

& I will also be very brief, we have lost 2 very dear to us kids from broken necks....is it worth it?

Cindy and Joel said everything I would say and better! Ditto!

Arty please share the circumstances of how that happened. Yes it's worth it if you consider they live decades and decades.

And it's totally worth your sharing how they broke thier necks if you dont mind. Thanks.

Wordybirdy, a baby bird doenst just leap off something and fly headon into a wall. They learn in stages. Fluttering first. They dont' even have the strength to fly hard. I dont know the age of your bird or if the breeder took the time to let her learn but typically they will flutter, then fly about a few inches, then a few more and as they build their stamina and understand distance, landings, and have fixed places as a destination (like on you) then they venture further and further.

Babies are completely different than adults or previously clipped birds and can't be compared. And very easy, too. I've never ever heard of a broken neck on a baby. And rarely on adults either.

Arty, would you think maybe it would be fair (if one is going to try and influence such an important decision by a bird keeper, which will so greatly affect the life of any bird) for you to give the exact specifics as to how your 2 birds were able to break their necks? Of course ya might have to be open to a lil friendly, yet constructive criticism by doing so - for the benefit(s) of other people's birds.

To answer your question (IMO) :" Is it worth it"? ..... My answer would be definitely YES!!!! To allow a bird to be what it was meant to be (as much as possible in captivity), a very slight risk must be taken - I say "very slight" because that is what I believe the risk should be labeled IF each of us did what is needed to be done, to safety proof the room/enclosure/etc.

Once again I need to (for the bird's sake) give this example: Would we lock up our children in a room or keep them confined to a house forever because there may be a risk if they go bike riding or playing out in the front yard or swimming at the beach etc.??? Risks are a part of life in order to live life to its fullest - it is up to each responsible bird keeper/parront to do all in their power to reduce the risks. Will a bird ever die even if all the odds have been reduced? Sure one will, here and there = part of life. Will many birds die because they are clipped, yet wouldn't have died if they had not been clipped = OF COURSE!!!


Cindy - we think alike again, as I was composing my response to Arty while you were posting yours. Did not see yours before submitting mine.

Yours is much better anyway.

I was looking for the Julia Robers quote from Steel Magnolias:

"I would rather have thirty minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special. "

Even though that quote doesnt exactly apply here, I think if you ask the bird they'd say "Clip my WHAT!?!!"