I think that what is being said makes sense. I wouldn't accept it as the norm however as you have to have a good relationship. You can't give up of course so it is best to work something out.

Even Budgies can get into a biting frame of mind & it can be perplexing - I feel I'm being reprimanded & I immediately get them to fly away as my hand is no longer available. When they are like that [Laker the older one, in particular] I keep an eye on him & don't offer my hand for a bit. Like you do - the hand drops, when I see him get all broody so I don't let it carry thru to a bite the 2nd time.

If you find that as you say she will bite you near the end of an out time or play time - I'd think she was overloaded - lots of stimulation & energy & perhaps a bit tired.
I would time your interactions for a bit - less time hands on - smaller portions. If she's used to lots of inactivity during the week it can be quite a high for her to be out a lot.

Bunny [the Grey] was a bit nippy as well but nothing too hard. It usually happened when I moved something of hers. Like Rob suggested, I didn't react. I did however leave her to herself for a bit afterwards. I also made her do laps in the living room 4x's a day. My reasoning was as a very young bird she will have lots of natural pent up energy. Where can it go? I thought it best to wear her out a bit. The result was lots of tail wags & preening. The flying didn't require much hands on - except to pick her up when she got lost or tired.

Maybe your 'hands on' is proving to be too much right now - who knows. Each creature is different. Maybe try less cuddles & beaking .... for now. Put a stop to the pattern.

Have you tried having someone else work with her? Sometimes another can break the pattern.

I hope something works.

I cant say Im in agreement with totally breaking a bird of its natural instinct. They beak each other, just like we touch. Im not saying harsh biting should be tolerated but thats part of keeping a wild animal in your home. I think too much training is a human control issue. I let my birds do their thing. I get bit to bleeding on occasion. But like I said, birds bite.

There is a difference between a bird laying his beak on you and biting you hard enoth to draw blood. Burt will grab my finger with his beak and pull it over to a toy to play with him. Another time he lays his beak on me is when I put him in a position he is not comfortable with then I listen to him and take him out of that situation. Perhaps some birds are trying to communicate this but don’t know there own strength so you have to show them what is exceptible to you. By pushing gently back when the pressure becomes unacceptable to you.

Burt doesn’t step up every time and I except that is his choice. He acutely chooses when to be with me or when to play or sometimes even what toy to play with. But would I want to be with him if every time I handled him he drew blood.
In his natural flock environment they may move each other with their beak but I don’t think they would tolerate each other biting so hard that they would draw blood.

Positive reinforcement training is all about getting them to do what you want but making them think its what they want, and not conditioning them to think in a certain way but to leave there personality and instincts intact. In fact encouraging its natural instinct. Most of the things Bert dose are probably common to the species when he plays with me he has always rolled onto his back and I have seen pictures of blue fronted amazons on there back. He enjoys being held in this way why I don’t know but he trusts me enough to let me do this. I have taught him to retrieve if in the wild they bring sticks back to the same spot again and again to build a nest this is a form of retreving. I have only put a command to it and give him a reward if he does it. I don’t reprimand him if he doesn’t do it in fact his attention span is about 2 minutes then we do something else because he doesn’t want to do that any more. It is keeping his mind active and making him think and interact with other members of the flock.

When Burt is with me it is his choice. Some of the tricks I have taught him he dos them by himself without me telling him. this is his way of communicating that he wants attention. So he now has another tool to communicate more clearly with me.

As my posting above I don’t chastise or raise my voice or try and stop his bad habits that is his choice. I just ignore them and encourage other ones. If a bird trusts you and they are getting what they want why would they bite you unless they are hormonal and not in control of themselves.

Hi Rob..thanks so much for all the suggestions. I would really like Harrison to get used to me touching her anywhere...I can touch her head, neck, feet/legs, and sometimes her back. I can also stroke her belly/chest with one finger depending on how I'm holding her. I'd love to be able to touch her wings...maybe I'll try your method...I'll be off work for the whole summer so maybe I'll start then. I do agree with Leigh in that I want her to be herself. I don't expect her to be sweet and cuddly like a kitten all the time...when she is, it's quite a treat for me. However, I'm tired of being bit.

Jac, I agree about not keeping her out as long and letting her play by herself...I'm going to put her away more frequent...what I'm doing now is, when I get home from work at 3:30, I feed her a little...she'll eat a little bit then I bring her to her stand. We sit or play or whatever for a while and I was putting her back in her cage aroun 7:30 or 8pm...I wonder if that's too long between meals, too.?? So, now I'm putting her back in her cage after about an hour of being out, leave her in there for a little bit and bring her back out. If, when I go to put her back, she holds on to my finger with one of her feet....you know how they do when they don't want to step down...then I might bring her back out. On the weekends, I have her out a lot longer...but again, I'll be putting her in her cage every hour or so.

I really think I've screwed up with the whole biting thing. I think I've reinforced it...so, now I need to figure out how to undo that.

Rob, I know what you mean when you say Burt is only with you when he wants to be...Harrison is the same way...if she doesn't want to come out of her cage or she doesn't want to come sit with me, I respect her wishes...I never force her to do something she doesn't want to do. I just wish she would communicate with me before she bites...maybe she does and I'm a little slow on the uptake. Anyway, thank you all for all your help...I'm hoping Harrison will get better about biting but I'm not expecting a miracle...and like I said before, I want her to act like a parrot.

Here is an excerpt from a web page that explains biting is not a natural wild parrot trait but a captive parrot trait. I have also given you this web page so you can read this article in its entirety

It is unlikely from what we have learned about the parrot’s brain that your bird “loves or hates” either of you, at least not in the same sense that people love or hate each other. It does however make perfect sense that a companion bird would attempt to choose someone in the household as a potential mate. Remember we are thinking natural and instinctual. Once a bird has identified a mate, any others making advances towards them or their mate would be perceived as an intruder. The parrot’s job (to be successful in the wild), would involve driving the intruder from the territory. This is accomplished through posturing in an attempt to look larger, color display, and vocalizing. In most cases the perceived intruder will leave and the dispute would be considered settled. Occasionally, the first bird may be the one driven off by the newcomer. In either case it is almost unheard of for any actual physical contact (like biting) to take place during the confrontation. Once the dispute is settled the pair can than continue nest building, courting, and rearing their young
Sexual behavior

Rob, you raise good points. However, for those of us who actually have a full flock, things may be viewed differently. Birds can be quite violent with each other, to the point of taking a limb off. I dont know that any of us here are expert enough to know exactly what goes on in the wild. Not even the "Experts" have watched long enough. Man in general wants to break every beast that is viewed as such. I do agree with a good bit of your comments but not entirely. Birds bite...bottom line! They may not all choose to do that, but at some point in the birds life with you, you will most likely get bit. Even human children try to test their parents in some way. Wild animals bite each other while learning self defense and use it to get attention. To what level do they bite, who knows! When we keep parrots as pets we have to keep in mind, they have no hands. They use their beaks. I dont think they understand out limitations so how can we expect them to understand that they are not in "control of themselves"? Im very happy Burt has turned around for you. Thats a great thing. But not all parrots require that type of training. And if Burt is young, you still have a long way to go with behavior, so be prepared.

I will look for your threads to see how you are doing - I really hope this smooths over into a new phase. Leigh also has had a rough year so far with Buddy. So it can happen. I hope the changes you have already made help so you can see you're going in the right direction.

Please excuse my busy ways ~ As far as I know Burt came with lots of attitude to Rob & is a mature bird of about 8[?]. This was extremely brave of Rob but obviously the Zon beauty won out & he is lucky to be with his new home.

Maybe when you get a mature bird you are less inclined to interact closely as much as when you start with a baby.
When I was birdsitting I never pushed Bunny to do what I wanted. If she hesitated I would pretend I was doing something else, walk away & wait before asking again. She was smart & I saw her watching - she almost always responded positively the 2nd time.

Something else I just thought of ... One thing that seems universal, be it bird or ... ; is, if you aren't 100% there when petting or what ever [are thinking of something else] - you get reminded rudely by your pet. All my pets have 'bitten me', or nipped, because i was absentminded: My Budgie, my cat, my horse, & my dogs would hit me with their front foot thankfully. I guess they feel quite insulted & want a stop to it.

Take care

PS - Bunny's owner emailed me yesterday & said that Bunny was saying some things in my voice! How funny is that! I was quite touched - only hope she doesn't drive them crazy.