If members arent welcome to post their views then it's probably a good idea to close a thread that's just an announcement and prayer request.

I personally feel advocating for Alex and other research animals is one huge prayer.

ParrotChronicles.com



Life in the lab

Alex and his fellow lab birds enjoy a good, if unorthodox, life for a parrot. They spend between 8 and 12 hours a day playing and working with graduate students who run them through their paces in the MIT laboratory. Each bird has its own large cage with toys.

At night, rather than go home with a student or faculty member, for security reasons the birds are taken to a separate animal-care facility on campus.

The birds get half an hour of low lighting to simulate dusk, then 12 hours of darkness before another half hour of low light to simulate dawn. They then return to the main lab to begin another day.

Some animal-rights extremists who do not believe people should own animals "hang around the lab, asking when Alex is going to be released," says Pepperberg.

Others have seen pictures of Alex in his small, toyless sleeping cage and become upset, thinking the cage is his around-the-clock living quarters. However, "most people have praised Alex’s treatment as humane research," says the professor.

Alex has feather picked intermittently all of his life, including his wings. He suffers bouts of the habit when Pepperberg is away from him, traveling.

"Right now he’s fully feathered. The students here in Boston are so excellent and so involved with their work, I think he’s okay with my not being here all of the time."

I second that to a 100%. As another scientist, I also have strong feelings towards animal research - I personally would probably not be able to conduct it. However, as all of us, I'm also using it in one way or another on a daily basis (I guarantee you, that the guidelines for exposure to organic solvents were not determined using humans - if somebody requires a citation, please let me know and I will dig into it). Therefore, I see the benefits in it - do I like the process leading to those benefits? No, but I can assure you that it's the only reason that humans nowadays exceed a live expectation of ~35-40yrs (please refer to publicly accessible population statistics for that).

In the case of Alex, I must say that I personally think he led a better live than a lot of companion parrots in homes - before you go after me now for that statement, please consider that neglect and/or abuse of parrots are still very common in our society due to lack of knowledge. Not many come up, but the ones that do say plenty (for examples, please refer to the articles on the TGF website regarding the most recent hording situation in Colorado). Was it ideal? Maybe not, but he was loved and cared for (something I'm sure many other companion parrots are lacking - some of them end up at the TGF, please see the photos of 100s of cockatoos in the corresponding threads).

Same for me...

Ok, I will speak more freely now that we are out of the thread to recognize Alex and his life's devotion to science. Whether it was or was not his choice to live the life he did, he was very well loved. I have had personal conversations with Arlene who spent many hours and years caring for him and his 2 companions. Dr Pepperberg, with all do respect loved Alex as she would her own child. Because I have met these people and it was directly spoken to me that they are in extreme distress over this, I go to their defense in saying, please dont do this right now! Word travels quickly through the avian community. They will know there is controversy. And had this been my grey lost, I would be in a world of pain. Can we please, give them the respect to take the time to mourn his passing!

I do not agree with any kind of lab animals. These birds at Brandeis are treated very well! All of the students who are involved spend time with these guys. The mission they are on is to educate the world that parrots have the ability to think and make decisions.

Thats all Im gonna say.

We have a very smart macaw here named Victory. He can sing several songs from start to finish and do all the animal sounds. He also knows several colors and like to play basketball on a miniature court. You can tell him red, blue or yellow ball and he will run and get in and put it in the basket. Victory learned this before he came to live with us. He sings daily and plays ball several times per year. We do not push Victory to do anything, he shows off when he wants to. Our birds lead a good life and I'm sure Alex did the same, he was well loved.

Don't we already know that parrots have the ability to talk and think? Do they need to prove that even further now with Griffin & Wart?

I still feel, after all that has been said: Give a parrot a choice of living like Alex did - with that so called "love" from a human or many humans - look where that got him - vs. safe, fully flighted life in a huge outdoor aviary in a tropical setting with playmates of his own species, toys, wood to chew on, an excellent diet and freedom from stress. Alex and any other parrot (in his right mind - lol) would choose the latter - I am sure of it.

As far as necessary experimentation goes, for the advancement of the human species - I wish we would use our positively proven criminals, murderers, rapists, torturers, etc. to experiment on - rather than innocent poor defenseless animals.

Yes, thanks Alex for "your" life's devotion to science.
Psst: Alex - I for one know that it was definitely NOT your "choice". - but let's keep that between you, I, Cindy215 and a few others.

I welcome any keepers of experimentation parrots to join our Board to specifically discuss the matter. I would love to hear & discuss the perspective of those directly involved.

now you make me feel bad, because if i'd ask valo and bella they'd probably also wouldn't wanna live with us - and for a matter of fact, if i'd ask them whether they'd want to live in an outdoor aviary in a tropical setting with playmates of his own species, toys, etc, or in their original environment without a fence, they'd probably choose the latter too

i think this is kind of drifting off into a discussion whether parrot-keeping in itself is ethical to begin with

Joel, you are missing the overall point I am trying to make right now! The people who cared for Alex, I know personally! They are heart broken! Its not fair to pass judgment on this while they are still in tears. He wasnt injected or tortured. Did he live in a lab? YES. Not my ideal scenario by any means, but we cant take that away. He wasnt left alone, or starved for tricks. He was well loved and those people just had their worlds turned upside down. I really dont want to believe anyone could have such a lack of respect for that right now. Wart and Griffin are also well cared for, and I go to the defense of the people caring for them! To continue this debate right now is unethical. I agree with some of the things you said, but over all, keeping parrots in captivity is unethical, and Im learning that everyday as I meet people with rescues that are full of unwanted birds. The point of the continued education is so that people can see how complicated these creatures are and are not meant to be caged to begin with. So how can you as a breeder, challenge captivity issues when you yourself are bringing more into the world, to ultimately be caged?