I do think that demonstrating things with Maple in front of Harley is a good thing - birds want to fit in with their flock and it's usually a Money-see, Monkey-do with birds Winston learned nearly everything from watching Jerry and Lulu play and interact with us.

About using food rewards - do you guys do any food management? For example, doing the training before their dinner time? I always pull seed dishes out when they're flying and I usually wait awhile before I start any training so that they've had a chance to wear out and be that much more motivated to work for the treat. It's similar to the food management involved in free-flying recall, but on a much, much smaller scale. The free fliers train kind of like they're preparing for the Olympics, but my food management is pretty basic - let them work up an appetite after playing and then do the training. And it seems to go over well.

I actually started doing the food management initially so that they eat their veggies for dinner (and it works), and now when I do training I still train before dinner and after they've worked up an appetite.

Ouch, hope the vaccuum went well. ewww.
Until Harley get's better with you, he might do better with a hand perch to do stepups on....Cleo will still fight me over the perch even, on her cagetop, but eventually she will. It takes a lot of patience and cunning and timing as well. I have to catch Cleo in a place where I can sort of "scoop" and run. haha. But, her scoopability factor is certainly better.
One thing that helped Cleo with the perch is having somewhere to transport her to. I put her tree close to the cage and used the handperch to tansport her over to the tree to get the pnut that I had put there. She liked it then.
Then, I reversed it and put a prize on the cage where she could see it, then pushed the cage/tree farther apart until I got her on the perch pretty easily.
As I said, she still isn't 100%, butI can get her on it now and I have to build on that part.
Mark

I tried that, but to be honest, I had guilt.
I didn't see a big difference in Cleo's desire when I witheld food until traintime. I don't feel right withholding her food, I do withold her treats however when a traintime is upcoming.
Mark

Same here Mark...I have tried but didn't see any major difference and didn't have the heart to continue it. Rob finds it easier, but that probably comes from doing his falconry apprenticeship.

I gotten bitten once today...but got one good step up outta him! lol

Unfortunately for me and the birds under my care, the only thing I want them to learn is something that nobody can teach them (as far as I know): to revert to the behaviors of wild birds. Oh, not the small ones, those revert as soon as you open the cage door and allow them to join the flock, I am talking about the medium to large birds. Those never do, poor things. They are doomed to half a life until the day they die.

That is an absolute proven truth. I have noticed a difference in Cleo when she is socialized with her flock in the presence of Dood our tiel.

Dood is easy to work with and only wants to be with us. HE steps up easily and moves with us easily. He laughs, he really enjoys being in our presence.
When we interact with him on that level IN FRONT of Cleo, she eyeballs it realllly hard. Then, she wants some of that action.
So, I have seen that be a catalyst to a more positive change in behavior on the bird. But, that said, it could also be a double edged sword. If the bird is hormonal, insecure, overprotective or such, it could bite you in the butt..literally...if they see you interacting with another bird.
Mark

I've also noticed with my two, they're not only watching what the other bird is doing when they're with me, but they're especially watching what I'm doing.

When Kita first came here and 'hands on' was very new and scary to her she was very intent when she watched me interacting with Kady. I would look at her while I had him, and she would be watching my facial expression intently. I felt it was a huge help for her to see the interaction I had with Kady. I feel it helped her to trust me quicker.

Winston initially tried to pretend that he wasn't watching me, but he was. His body would be turned away from me and he would pretend to be focused on a toy but really he was watching very closely out of the corner of his eye.

Now that he's comfortable with us, he cocks his head to one side and really intently stares when we're interacting with someone else.

Karen..spot on! Excellent example.
Yes, the flock mentality is very apparant when you have more than one. They see YOU being happy and THEY want to make you happy. They are just not conditioned to know how to make you happy.
Cleo has been such a struggle and I can tell that SHE knows when she makes ME happy by stepping up or something else.
Very intuitive animals they are. Very bright and underestimated.
There are studies and so on that verify that sort of stuff. But only a bird lover can get that sense that you get when the bird knows you are happy.
It's not scientific, it's the human nature in us and the animal nature in them coming together at one sweet spot. It's not studyable.
Mark

When I withhold food it's no more than an hour or two - I don't want to come across as mean and nasty In reality they don't eat all day long, and don't need to eat all day long, and when they're out flying they're not constantly going back to graze on more of their dry food, they're focused on flying and playing. So I don't feel bad about pulling their seeds for an hour or two. And when the veggies come out, they all get excited and scarf them down.