Disciplining Parrots - Page 3

03-15-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quito's Qage

It strikes me that many of the things that we attempt to discipline a parrot for doing, are just perfectly fine and acceptable parrot behavior.

I do agree with you Nate. Perhaps I should have waited to get Ollie until I could provide a 100% bird safe area for her, like an indoor flight. But I didn't. I figure that Ollie would rather learn a few out of cage rules instead of having to stay in her bird safe cage for longer periods of time.

03-15-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfulhage

I do agree with you Nate. Perhaps I should have waited to get Ollie until I could provide a 100% bird safe area for her, like an indoor flight. But I didn't. I figure that Ollie would rather learn a few out of cage rules instead of having to stay in her bird safe cage for longer periods of time.

Camille, we do the best with what we have. Ollie is loved and well taken care of. If using a squirt bottle works for you and Ollie, great. (Like I said before, I tried it but was unable to be as consistent as I would've liked.)

I think bird keeping is definitely a learning process and it seems like you're doing just fine.

03-15-2007, 10:34 PM

Fids are very smart. Our Poco knows what No means also. She also knows when she is told not to do something and she keeps on that when I say "time to go home for 5 minutes" that she has been naughty and moms gotta punish her. I only leave her in her cage for 5 minutes and when I let her out I that I do love her, but she cannot do naughty things. But I must say that she knows the difference between time out in her cage and nitey nite time. I kiss her head and she goes to her play gym. She knows when we say Poco quiet down that she needs to do it. Fids can learn negative reinforcement as easy as they learn "Step-Up".

Good Luck!!!

Dotty

03-16-2007, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfulhage

I do agree with you Nate. Perhaps I should have waited to get Ollie until I could provide a 100% bird safe area for her, like an indoor flight. But I didn't. I figure that Ollie would rather learn a few out of cage rules instead of having to stay in her bird safe cage for longer periods of time.

I'm not sure that 100 percent bird safe is even attainable, and I think you do a great job with Ollie. I just think that we have to be more accepting, and take it in stride when our babies do something we would rather they didn't do. A parrot or two on the loose in the house (especially flighted ones) requires pretty much my undivided attention to keep them out of trouble. Sometimes, because there are after all only so many hours in the day, we try to multi-task too much. That's when the perverse little buggers get into something they shouldn't. I just chock it up to being my fault, and not theirs.

03-16-2007, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quito's Qage

It strikes me that many of the things that we attempt to discipline a parrot for doing, are just perfectly fine and acceptable parrot behavior. Chewing, throwing food, screaming, and tearing things apart are all part of what being a parrot is about. If we are trying to stop them from being parrots, then why should we want to keep them in the first place? There are easier to control pets. Far better to put the responsibility for their behavior where it belongs, on us. Should we let our bird chew wires? Of course not. Knowing that our bird is a parrot, and parrots chew just about anything, should we put our parrot in a position where he might chew a wire? Of course not! Can we bully him to the point where he won't chew the wire? Perhaps, but what do we do to his head in the process? He may comply, but becomes terribly frustrated because he's just doing what his nature compels him to do.

Parrots are not domesticated. They are at most only a large handful of generations removed from the wild. If domestication is the goal (and I'm not sure I'd want a domesticated parrot anyway) we have to remember that it is probably hundreds of years away.

I prefer to celebrate the parrot for what he is, and put the responsibility for what he does on myself. I'm the one that's expecting him to live in my world, after all. Let's face it, it's a far different world than his.

Very superbly put, Nate!

03-16-2007, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfulhage

I do agree with you Nate. Perhaps I should have waited to get Ollie until I could provide a 100% bird safe area for her, like an indoor flight. But I didn't. I figure that Ollie would rather learn a few out of cage rules instead of having to stay in her bird safe cage for longer periods of time.

Camille - no matter how hard we try, these little buggers always find something they should NOT get into!!

It's like having a perpetual 2 year old going through the terrible two's.

I think you have done fabulously with Ollie. I merely choose to do things in a manner which works for me. My fids have been around a long time and kinda know just by the look on my face that mom's not too happy with something. However it has taken MANY YEARS of that "LOOK" to obtain a positive response from them. They know. I truly believe they know.

03-16-2007, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quito's Qage

Disclaimer: This got really long, and I apologize. Also, I'm not trying to criticize anyone. My thinking could also be flawed. It happens.

I don't use a squirt bottle for discouragement, since Tausi refuses to bathe in a dish. It's the only way to get the boy wet, and he's not crazy about that. Getting better about it though. On principle, I'm really not sure whether I agree with using a squirt bottle that way or not. If the bird doesn't come to think of it as a unhappy experience associated with you, it may be ok.

There are some terms that we use interchangeably that can cause some confusion. In the context we're talking about, "discipline" implies "punishment", no matter how mild, in that we are trying to condition aversion to a given behavior by associating it with an unhappy or uncomfortable consequence. I am in the camp that says we shouldn't punish a parrot. If we do, we will pay the price in lost trust, and may pay an even heavier price by bringing about even less desirable behavior (like plucking, fear biting, etc). Granted, we may achieve the short term goal of stopping what the parrot was doing, but if it is done by intimidation or force we are asking for worse trouble down the road. That's not to say that we cannot guide a parrot toward acceptable behavior, and to some extent they will comply if they think it is worth their while. Most of the time.

I think we make two fundamental mistakes when we think about our birds. First, what reason do we have to believe that they are really interested in pleasing us? They are not like say, dogs. Dogs, being pack animals who believe very strongly in pack rankings, can easily be persuaded to do what the pack leader wants. Sure, birds are flock animals, but a flock is far removed from a pack behaviorally. We don't even really understand how flock behavior works for sure, but we know it is a much looser society than a pack, and each member is much more of an individual within it. Whatever social order there is seems to always be in flux. Birds do pair bond with us, and they will try their best to be a good mate. Being a good mate has nothing at all to do with not chewing the furniture. Which brings me to my next point.

It strikes me that many of the things that we attempt to discipline a parrot for doing, are just perfectly fine and acceptable parrot behavior. Chewing, throwing food, screaming, and tearing things apart are all part of what being a parrot is about. If we are trying to stop them from being parrots, then why should we want to keep them in the first place? There are easier to control pets. Far better to put the responsibility for their behavior where it belongs, on us. Should we let our bird chew wires? Of course not. Knowing that our bird is a parrot, and parrots chew just about anything, should we put our parrot in a position where he might chew a wire? Of course not! Can we bully him to the point where he won't chew the wire? Perhaps, but what do we do to his head in the process? He may comply, but becomes terribly frustrated because he's just doing what his nature compels him to do.

Parrots are not domesticated. They are at most only a large handful of generations removed from the wild. If domestication is the goal (and I'm not sure I'd want a domesticated parrot anyway) we have to remember that it is probably hundreds of years away.

I prefer to celebrate the parrot for what he is, and put the responsibility for what he does on myself. I'm the one that's expecting him to live in my world, after all. Let's face it, it's a far different world than his.

I agree. In fact I can't think of anything my birds do that they need to be disciplined for. The occasional squawks don't bother me. I can live with poop on the floor and tracking the seeds around. All but the two new birds know how to "Go home". I am sure Ixchel and Yaxche will learn it too. I celebrate having parrots in my home for what they are and I am honoured they actually seem to like being around me!

03-19-2007, 03:50 PM

I've never tried a squirt bottle with Buster as we use it to bathe her with. She certainly understands "No!" and "Get down!" but that doesn't mean she always obeys. I think the key is consistency as with any sort of training. We don't attempt to stop the basic "parrot behaviors" like chewing, etc., but we try to keep lots of chewable toys around in her area so that she is less inclined to look elsewhere for something to destroy. To me, the key is to provide lots of outlets for their less desirable behaviors and lots of positive reinforcement to those behaviors we appreciate. We have also found that ignoring a misbehaving parrot is extremely effective, especially when it comes to yelling. Of course, one cockatiel doesn't make a lot of noise but it can be shrill and ear-splitting.

One way or another, our fids have to be trained. I believe that if you have a basic loving, trusting relationship with your fid, a mild form of discipline like a squirt, time out or ignoring the bird is usually very effective. They want to please us and be with us as much and as often as possible, so our opinions and wants matter. Just work from love in all things.

03-19-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calvins Mom

My fids have been around a long time and kinda know just by the look on my face that mom's not too happy with something. However it has taken MANY YEARS of that "LOOK" to obtain a positive response from them. They know. I truly believe they know.

Kathie, I had to laugh when I read this. I give Kady 'the look" and he says in this most unbelievable sarcastic tone, "WHAAAAAT"

03-19-2007, 05:06 PM

i don't use a squirt bottle with valo.... mainly because i always loose the damn thing somewhere in the house, and it's never close when i need it....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calvins Mom

My fids have been around a long time and kinda know just by the look on my face that mom's not too happy with something. However it has taken MANY YEARS of that "LOOK" to obtain a positive response from them. They know. I truly believe they know.

i'm trying to get valo to understand the evil eye look (thank god, i can't loose my eyes so they're always handy when i need them)... and the only time i need those is when he bites, which unfortunately happens more often than i like (but that's a completely different story which shall be told a different time)... he's picking it up... he seems to understand that he did something he can't do....
for anything else, i don't have any issues with him... he doesn't go anywhere he shouldn't be (which there's really no such place except for some cables i couldn't cover), and he rarely screams

nate, as always - i completely agree with you.... however, the scenario you describe sounds a little too ideal to me... i can try to let them be what they are - until my ear drums pop, my neighbors get me kicked out of my place and i don't have fingers anymore because they've been chewed off ;-) (you should know that fingers are in danger when living with a GCC

)