with my two amazons i use the mild earthquake method when they are trying to lunge for me while i hold them on a stick. its either that or get a diced hand.

for other bad behaviors, i give a stern, quick NO and short evil eye look. if i see that all they want is attention and they get aggressive, i just turn my back on them for a few seconds and turn back towards them to have them do some kind of training session - target training, wing-flapping exercise, etc.

thats an interesting method to squirt the tail. i think thats much better than squirting a bird in the face. anything that works and the least aversive is the best method. positive reinforcement is always best, but of course its not something you can always stick to.

i have also read most of your stories about you and Ollie and you certainly do something right to have such a loving bird. there is no set way on how to teach a bird right and wrong - its as diverse as a bird's personality.

I understand, but in the event you needed to mist her... Just my opinion - not saying it is right or wrong. I don't always have time for a full bath so misting is a must for those days when I just can't do the full shower.

and like little kids.............. just because they understand "no" doesn't mean its going to matter a hoot to them. Zoey and Benji have never needed any kind of discipline at all. Hopefully we will be able to figure out something to teach Cricket to be not so nippy with Kelly.

As for Sophie. The squirt bottle. Mix ornery with intelligence and what do you get? Sophie squawking so you WILL squirt her because she likes it!!! No gets us that mischievous look that means "next chance I get, you get bit"

The only thing that has worked has been moving her into the bedroom when she gets loud. Now I don't act like I am disciplining her when I do this. Ekkies like it a bit more peaceful and a Sennie and Lovebird calling out call annoy her. If she is being ornery about her squawking she gets covered for awhile. That seems to work pretty good. I have only done this next thing a couple times and it worked both times. I squawk back. I'm louder then her too. lol

One other thing I do when my macaws start sounding off... I go into their room and whisper. It's amazing how they calm down!

I have used a squirt bottle as positive punishment* but because I was unable to be consistent enough with it, I stopped.
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*Before my use of the word "punishment" causes an uproar:
-Positive reinforcement is ADDING an incentive intending to INCREASE a behavior (i.e., giving a treat for stepping up).
-Positive punishment is ADDING a "negative" stimulus intending to DECREASE a behavior (i.e., squirting for chewing wires).
-Negative reinforcement is TAKING AWAY a "negative" stimulus (i.e., removing a stimulus that is causing feather picking).
-Negative punishment is TAKING AWAY a "positive" stimulus (i.e., taking away a toy that is causing breeding behaviors).

I cant squirt because I use the water bottle to bathe, and they already hate it! Accept Occy, who just LOVES it. But I do squirt the cat! So when he acts up, and I pick up the bottle, Buddy goes into "Pine Cone Bird" mode and starts shouting "OHHHH!!" "SURE!" I have to quake Alex when he bites. Its the only thing that breaks his concentration of being in the "ZONE". Occy is never a problem. Afa is getting better but gets time out in her cage after firm "NO". We always explain time out though so the cage isnt punishment. Same for Buddy. Ive quaked him on occasion, but only if he's all puffed out and popping at my arms or hand. Who am I kidding..the BIRDS are in charge, and they punish me!! lol..

We sometimes use the squirt bottle when Jerry flies over to Lulu. But like Camille and Ollie, we rarely have to actually squirt him. All we have to do is pick up the bottle and I say sternly, "GO!" and he knows to fly away. He absolutely understands his boundaries and he does push them, especially when we're not paying attention. For example, if the phone rings and the birds are out with just me home (only one pair of eyes instead of two), as soon as I turn my head and am distracted by the phone, Jerry will try to fly to Lulu to get her to play. He knows very well that if I'm distracted he can use that to his advantage. This is why we need constant supervision with them out - and it's not like I have to have my eyes glued to them at all times, because there are some days where he won't bother her at all, but at all times we need to pay attention to where in the room they both are.

And Jerry does not get misted for his baths, he takes showers with us. And it's only used for that purpose. We do a lot of positive reinforcement training with him, we work on step-ups occassionally and we're working on recall but I admit that we're not very consistent. But about 65% of the time we can hold our hand up and call him and he'll fly right over. It's when he's distracted and on a mission that he won't, and this is when the squirt bottle has become necessary.

I agree that this method would not work on a previously abused bird or a bird who takes baths by misting.

Disclaimer: This got really long, and I apologize. Also, I'm not trying to criticize anyone. My thinking could also be flawed. It happens.

I don't use a squirt bottle for discouragement, since Tausi refuses to bathe in a dish. It's the only way to get the boy wet, and he's not crazy about that. Getting better about it though. On principle, I'm really not sure whether I agree with using a squirt bottle that way or not. If the bird doesn't come to think of it as a unhappy experience associated with you, it may be ok.

There are some terms that we use interchangeably that can cause some confusion. In the context we're talking about, "discipline" implies "punishment", no matter how mild, in that we are trying to condition aversion to a given behavior by associating it with an unhappy or uncomfortable consequence. I am in the camp that says we shouldn't punish a parrot. If we do, we will pay the price in lost trust, and may pay an even heavier price by bringing about even less desirable behavior (like plucking, fear biting, etc). Granted, we may achieve the short term goal of stopping what the parrot was doing, but if it is done by intimidation or force we are asking for worse trouble down the road. That's not to say that we cannot guide a parrot toward acceptable behavior, and to some extent they will comply if they think it is worth their while. Most of the time.

I think we make two fundamental mistakes when we think about our birds. First, what reason do we have to believe that they are really interested in pleasing us? They are not like say, dogs. Dogs, being pack animals who believe very strongly in pack rankings, can easily be persuaded to do what the pack leader wants. Sure, birds are flock animals, but a flock is far removed from a pack behaviorally. We don't even really understand how flock behavior works for sure, but we know it is a much looser society than a pack, and each member is much more of an individual within it. Whatever social order there is seems to always be in flux. Birds do pair bond with us, and they will try their best to be a good mate. Being a good mate has nothing at all to do with not chewing the furniture. Which brings me to my next point.

It strikes me that many of the things that we attempt to discipline a parrot for doing, are just perfectly fine and acceptable parrot behavior. Chewing, throwing food, screaming, and tearing things apart are all part of what being a parrot is about. If we are trying to stop them from being parrots, then why should we want to keep them in the first place? There are easier to control pets. Far better to put the responsibility for their behavior where it belongs, on us. Should we let our bird chew wires? Of course not. Knowing that our bird is a parrot, and parrots chew just about anything, should we put our parrot in a position where he might chew a wire? Of course not! Can we bully him to the point where he won't chew the wire? Perhaps, but what do we do to his head in the process? He may comply, but becomes terribly frustrated because he's just doing what his nature compels him to do.

Parrots are not domesticated. They are at most only a large handful of generations removed from the wild. If domestication is the goal (and I'm not sure I'd want a domesticated parrot anyway) we have to remember that it is probably hundreds of years away.

I prefer to celebrate the parrot for what he is, and put the responsibility for what he does on myself. I'm the one that's expecting him to live in my world, after all. Let's face it, it's a far different world than his.

Roxie was just disciplined tonight .... second time in her life and both times it was for biting when she doesn't get her way. I scolded her and made her stay in her cage for about 20 minutes (she's always out while we're home). I swear she looked apologetic when she was let back out, and she didn't misbehave in the least for the rest of the evening ! I think positiive reinforcement is a must as well, so I praised her a few times for being such a good girl .

I think you have a very valid point.