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Old 11-05-2007, 04:35 PM   #1
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Default Budgies - abnormal Cere growth

I am going to post two photo's of my 7 year old budgie Bertie for your opinion
Of her cere.
She was bought as a male and taught to say pretty boy, hence the name. Her cere was a bit blue, but changed to brown. She has always had a lot of black spots in her bib.
At about age three her cere started to grow this horny looking growth that looks like a mirror image of her beak.Usually it falls off once a year and then starts to grow back again.
I saw an Australian Vet on TV, Dr Harry Cooper, he had a patient with the same problem and said it was hormonal ,and nothing could be done.
I am guessing she might be short of breath as she does not fly very far now.
She has always been very cranky, bites a lot and not very social at all compared to the boys I have had in the past.
Just last week, she laid her first egg which was rather large and very soft, she does have cuttle fish and a mineral block.
I dont really expect there is anything to be done, but would just like to know if anyone has seen this before.
PS. To Karen, at last I have navigated the upload procedure, it must be senior moment syndrome !!
Chrissy
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Old 11-06-2007, 02:15 AM   #2
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Default Re: Budgies - abnormal Cere growth

It may be hormonal. Is it possible to weigh her? Is there rough skin around her beak and cere? Can you take a close up picture of her feet, from this distance the feet look a little rough, but it may be changing seasons. How much sunlight does she get? I have seen this before but not all the symptoms in the same bird. Sorry if I asked too many questions.
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Old 11-06-2007, 06:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Budgies - abnormal Cere growth

There could be two things happening here,

1. A benign hypertrophy. This sort of growth is somewhat common with female parakeets.
2. Scaly face mites.

The best thing to do is have a Avian vet take a look.
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:22 AM   #4
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Default Re: Budgies - abnormal Cere growth

No, this is not scaly face mites, the cere would not look like that and it would not fall off every year to grow back. It's not a growth either because if it was, again, it would not fall off and grow back year after years. In my personal opinion (but I am not an avian vet) it has to be hormonal and due to a diet too high in protein and not keeping her to a strict natural daylight schedule. She obviously also needs Calciboost or some other sort of avian liquid calcium (the soft egg! and be careful, she might become eggbound and die if you don't do something about that). You can give her all the cuttlebone in the world but she cannot absorb the calcium into her system if she has no vitamin D3 which is only produced through direct exposure to sunlight but the avian liquid calcium will take care of that. You don't mention her diet but if you are free feeding her seeds, that is the source of the too high protein (I don't agree with feeding budgies pellets, either). She needs to eat a small, measured portion (a teaspoonful) of seeds for dinner (when the sun starts to go down) and fresh veggies, fruits and greens during the day (you can also offer a cooked grain dish like gloop or similar). Also, if you are not giving her vitamins, I suggest you start now.
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Old 11-06-2007, 06:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: Budgies - abnormal Cere growth

Her face and feet are clear ,and no sign of scale anywhere .
I will try to weigh her, but not hopefull. She is a bit on the tubby side, but only since she stopped moving so much. I did cut her seed right down three years ago, but will cut it down again. She has never been one for eating cooked food, my boy budgie just loved it and ate with us every night.
She will try egg and rice somtimes. She gets a lot of fruit ,green weeds and grasses from the garden and vitamin and mineral powder in her water. I will get some liquid calcium. This was the first egg she has laid in 7 years, and there have been no more since that one.
She does go outside in the sun a lot, especially when she was younger, so it was not lack of sun that started this thing.
She has never been a friendy bird, and bites every chance she gets. The only time I can pick her up without a bite is when she lands in an unfamiliar place.
She spends a lot of time out of the cage getting as much exercise as possible, just flitting between the other two birds cages, a canary and a cockatiel.
Do you think the amount of black spots they have are anything to do with hormones ?

Last edited by Chrissy; 11-06-2007 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 11-06-2007, 11:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: Budgies - abnormal Cere growth

Black spots are color, its her necklace. If she doesn't like cooked food then extra grasses, leafy vegs etc will be good. Any calcium you get has to be balanced with phosprous, it also only works in the presence of sunlight.
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Old 11-07-2007, 07:05 AM   #7
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Default Re: Budgies - abnormal Cere growth

No, no, 2horse, Calciboost or any other liquid calcium especially formulated for birds works by itself, doesn't need sunlight because it already has the necessary vitamin D3 in it. It's meant for captive birds that never get direct sunlight.

Chrissy, make sure she is kept to a strict natural daylight schedule and don't free-feed her seeds. Just give her veggies, fruits and greens to eat during the day and the teaspoonful of seed for dinner (and don't worry if she doesn't eat the fresh produce at the beginning, keep on insisting, takes sometimes up to two years to convince them to try something new). Also, give her 2/3 water, 1/3 Naturade Aloe Vera Detoxifying formula for her drink, this will help cleanse her liver (this is the organ that processes protein). This will not take care of the problem right away because it will take months for her metabolism to go back to normal but, if you keep on doing it, eventually, she will be fine. The growth is a bit extreme and this might be an indication that her liver is already damaged but the good thing about the liver is that it's the only organ that regenerates itself so there is always hope.
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Old 11-07-2007, 09:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: Budgies - abnormal Cere growth

Thank you Beatriz,
I will get onto that right away. The only Aloe Vera we can get in NZ is just called Aloe Vera juice ,you have to take 5-10ml a day (humans ), does that sound right ? I do have an Aloe Vera plant and have been using that in their shower spray bottle .
We are going into summer time now and it does not get dark until 8.30-9pm .The birds are usually covered for 12 hours, but it gets light at 6am, is that Ok ?

Last edited by Chrissy; 11-07-2007 at 09:54 PM.
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Old 11-08-2007, 12:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Budgies - abnormal Cere growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatriz Cazeneuve View Post
No, no, 2horse, Calciboost or any other liquid calcium especially formulated for birds works by itself, doesn't need sunlight because it already has the necessary vitamin D3 in it. It's meant for captive birds that never get direct sunlight.
Beatriz, since you chose to address me directly I will inform you that all things American are not available the world over. Calciboost or any other liquid is NOT available here. Are you suggesting I should specially import calciboost? Other calcium formulated for birds needs to have phosporus in a bird ratio and needs sunlight to work. It does not mean we are less able to care for our birds, all it means we chose a different manner. I have no need of any artificial lighting does this mean I am bad because I choose to expose my birds to direct natural sunlight (in outdoor aviaries) daily? We have full sunshine over 300 days a year, this message is brought to you from sunny South Africa.
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Old 11-08-2007, 05:30 AM   #10
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Default Re: Budgies - abnormal Cere growth

Chrissy, although there are many different opinions as to how many hours a bird should sleep, I choose to keep mine with the local seasons and it has always worked for me in terms of controlling breeding behavior (which is hormonal and thus photoperiodic in nature -even for equatorial birds). I do not go by the belief that all birds should always have 12 hour days and 12 hour nights.

If you cannot get the detoxifying formula, you will need to use the aloe vera juice in the water combined with milk thistle and dandelion root (they are herbs that help the liver eliminate accumulated toxins and tonics it for a better function). I don't know in what form you can get them there but a tea made out of the herb itself (two teaspoonfuls of each in two cups of hot water -not boiling, mind you, it would burn the herb- steeped until it cools) or a sprinkle of the powder if you can only get the human grade capsules will be very beneficial to her.

2horse, any avian liquid calcium is formulated with the added vitamin D3 so it requires no direct sun exposure, it doesn't have to be Calciboost. Calciboost is sold as Calcivet in the rest of the world, I understand -I know they sell it in Europe, Australia and South America. I come from a third world country myself (Uruguay) and they sell it there, too. It's expensive and only sold in specialized bird stores but they can get it. I don't know about South Africa, tough, but I am sure you can get it through the internet although if you are able to expose your birds to direct sunshine all year round, you would not need it but I understand it can get chilly in New Zealand so I assume they would need to keep the birds indoors and have some form of avian liquid calcium available.
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