I believe a pet bird should fly, indoors. I always go outside to my patio with Chipper in a little play cage. I sit beside her. Hawks and many problems outside in my opionion. Just so scary to me.

I am so glad everything ended ok.

Tinna- accidents do happen. Harley flew onto the neighbor's house last year while I was in a dressage lesson (freaked me out as you can imagine) and I'm not the one to judge someone on these things. Everyone who has a pet will experience something that isn't in the 'perfect pet care manual'. I think of it as a lesson for next time. At least you were able to get him home

Tinna -
do you know how to properly clip a bird ? And if so who taught you to do so ? A bad clipping can affect alot of things other than the birds mobility and range of flight

1. Interesting. Let's quote me accurately though to start:

There's no reason to clip birds so you can take them outside without flight harnesses. No bird should be taken outside NOT IN A CAGE imo, and only with flight harnesses that you are used to using and are sure they work. They can ALL fly enough to get hurt even clipped.

The flight harness is a valid option.

Being a wing clipper I understand where you feel saying "no reason to clip birds just so they can go outside....." is offensive.

Sorry.

But I will never say that the FUN of taking a bird outside outweighs the total lifetime benefits of flying. And that a clipped bird has more neuroses and issues than a fllighted bird. And that a clipped bird has more accidents and uncoordination than a flighted bird.

Never in a million trillion years.

But it's ok. Not everyone knows each other here.

I do dump all companion birds into one group. Well two, actually. The safe group and the unsafe group LOL. I believe on a message board you're responsible to give pretty serious advise since stuff we say can hurt a bird. Especially if you're just generalizing. And we dont know the people we're talking to.

2. I think Tinna knows I wasn't calling her irresponsible but your using that word does up the rhetoric a bit.

I think it was a big deal but I didnt post as such. The bird could be dead or worse, permanently disabled.

Tinna knows by now that I support her and never am mean to her even off line I"ve supported her and she knows my comments are made from concern.

2. And honesty. I would never just tell people to repeat an action that could end in a death. It's so easy to call these actions accidents.

This reminds me of when one of my customers in my pet store heard the words "safe to live in an aquarium" so took a hamster home and dumped him in the fish tank.

She was quite irate when she returned him all wet in a box that he was the most boring pet in the world and spent 24 hours clinging to the heating element.

Sometimes you have to be conservative in advise and know your audience
I M O.

4. I dont know where you got this :

"Anyway, my point being, you were not doing anything that you would not normally do with Jean or that you hadn't done before."

It was never stated that Tinna takes Jean outside all the time or ever ever before and I'd bet she doesnt.

Certainly the motorcycle was a NEW ELEMENT not something that she hadnt done before. Put a bird with wings next to a motorcycle.

Also if we're going to read into things....Tinna thought that Jean couldnt fly "UP". and I bet you a dollar Tinna got that impression from me and Sarah and Camille and whoever else discussing flight upward being difficult.

A perfect example of a reader not knowing what they couldnt possibly know if they havent lived with it.

Not that I think you're going to put anybody in a fishtank Tinna

Except maybe your brother and I totally support you doing that!

I think with the subject of whether bird should go out without a cage is something we are going to have to agree to disagree. I take the suns out a lot more than budgies, the budgies are flighted so they don't go out. All the pets get aviary time. All suns are clipped except Peanut. If I had to chose between taking him out or clipping I would still clip. I guess it depends on the human/bird bond as well as species. A harness does not work for Peanut since he can open the clips. IMO this makes it more unsafe as it gives me a false sense of security. With outside flight there is risks. I have no air predators just ground based dangers.

Yes I do I figured it out and regularly clip my neighbor's budgies when I was in town, now when I drive up to NY I usually pay a visit and I clip the first 3 feathers on each wing. I don't do hard clips, I don't snip the inside feathers, just the 3 outer ones since we've found these are the 6 they use the most to fly.

Jean when I got him had just been clipped and he had a harsh clip, they were all snipped about an inch from where they went into the skin, and 8 feathers in from the main one. I didn't do his clip he came that way, he only has 4 primary feathers left, I honestly think fear was what drove him to push himself like that because if he flutters around the house a lot he gets winded.


Actually...I take him outside once a day, to teach him the command "Go potty, go poopy" etc, I'm not trying to teach him to go on command but I am trying to teach him that the grass ='s pooping area because I'm tired of him trying to use the white shag carpeting as a Bird Toliet.


His flying upward is really difficult from him but I say again it has to be from fear that he actually got up there.


Yeah maybe for christmas. I'm intending on being the bad older sister then though and letting him drink some alchohol til he throws up on purpose (In washington state it is legal for a minor to consume alchohol in the presence of an adult during a religious function or holiday I.E. Christmas so long as said minor is 100% supervised and does not leave the house, if he steps outside, then that's a felony so we'll keep him indoors) the lil bugger has been going on about wanting to get drunk. I'm thinking, I'm going to give him a tall glass of wine and watch him drink it. Just one tall glass, and I'm pretty sure he's never going to touch it again. With 8 adults present and supervising him I'm pretty sure he's going to learn his lesson.

And to MapleBird, I agree more with taking the bird outside because J's right, giving a bird 15 minutes a day of sun, even if it's cloudy it benifits him I can't leave him under his fiber optic light all day, I live in a large basement but I have no windows, and h
e's down here all day, 15 minutes is a forgivable sin I think. And Jean does not fly away from me on the contrary he's a big scardy pants! When I take him outside and sit him on the grass he runs up inside my pantleg and hides or tries to hide on my shoulder. He's not an escape artist and I am going to continue to take him outside...just not near any vehicles. And it's still above 70 degrees where I am in Jersey, once it hits 69 I won't take him out anymore.

Sorry it took me so long to respond to everyone. I was working today from 3 until 7 and just got home.

Why not use newspaper, or paper towels rather than grass?? It's impossible to be consistent enough with grass for Jean to learn anything by it. When you see him start to poop, quickly stick him over some newspaper. You can do that nearly everytime, as opposed to running outside. Plus, it's much safer!


I would never take Ollie or Dakota outside, clipped or flighted, without them properly restrained in a harness or cage. I've raised Ollie from 8 weeks of age, we have an incredible bond etc ect, she's 100% on recall in the house when I'm holding either a clicker or a nut...still no way I'd take her to the great outdoors unrestrained. Waaaaay too much can happen, and it's just not worth the risk. She can happily fly indoors, and get the benefit from the sun safe in her cage on the patio outdoors.

I've heard of clipped birds flying off, birds who's owners thought they couldn't fly at all flying off.... it's too big of a risk, IMO. All it takes is something to spook them...Tinna's experience is a perfect example of that.

I'm so glad you were able to retrieve Jean, Tinna.

Cindy I am sorry if you felt personally attacked that was not my intent. My point was just to make the point that I disagree with what you had said. We ALL have our own opinions. And for the record, I did not say that YOU called Tinna irresponsible...I simply said that I did not think she was.

We all have our own ways of raising/handling our birds. My personal opinion is that outside time is very beneficial.

That is great that you support Tinna both on and offline. I too have had a conversation with Tinna and like her very much. I did not in any way intend to say otherwise. I know nothing of your relationship...it has nothing to do with me.

I was simply saying that I, for my own personal reasons and beliefs, disagree with what you were saying. And speaking for myself ONLY (not Tinna because I have no idea how she feels), if that post had of been directed toward me I would have found it harsh and offensive. But again I am a person who takes my birds outside regularly, and flies them. I strongly believe this is in their best interests, and I KNOW it has done them a world of good physically.

Again, I apologize if you took it as a PERSONAL attack. My intent was to voice my opinion on the topic which coincidently is quite different then your opinion.

And Tinna, I personally am happy to hear that you will continue to take Jean outside. A bird that is living with little to no natural light needs some outside time IMO. I also understand about Jean being a big baby outside and sticking right to you...because my Maple behaves the exact same way.


EDIT: And by the way...I wasn't reading into things about Tinna taking Jean outside....in the original post it was stated "I've taken him outside before like this many times and he's never tried to fly away from me, in fact he hides under my hair for protection I guess this time though he felt mom wouldn't be able to save him fast enough." ( I just had to go back and find that...I thought I was losing my mind LOL)

If I didn't know better you two are competing to be my new mom =O kidding. Well somewhat serious but kidding it's nothin bad.

cfulhage, we don't have a patio, we're living in a house right now that's semi falling apart and I'm in the basement, if I walk into the next room which stretches the length of the house there is an 18 foot crack in the foundation that tells us the mud is forcing the house to slide forward so I'm fairly impressed that it hasn't caved in yet. It's not the best home, or the prettiest one, but it's the one I've got for right now. Since it looks like I'll be moving to PA with them because I have no choice -.- that'll be where I'll have a room with 2 windows in it so Jean will have sun light in the bedroom...for what ever sun is left in december. It really bugs me though I want to stay in NJ and live on my own like, without room mates. They're okay, for emergencies, but I'd like to have the mobility to get around the house without worrying about the dog eating Jean. 4 days before he had his clip he was on my bed then jumped off it and flew to his cage (his cage is a lil low right now and the bed is a bit high since his take off platform was my shoulder) and he banked over the middle of the room where Mika was at, Mika jumped up and tried to clip him out of the air and I promptly threw her out of the room, she hasn't since tried to jump when he's flown in my room now she takes off with her tail between her legs because she knows I'm going to get her if she touches him. She's a smart dog luckily for her.... but she's still in my room on thin ice.

Well, the patio itself wasn't really pivotal to the point of my post. A cage like Jean's can be set anywhere outside. Sometimes I take Ollie in her travel cage and we go to a large patch of grass in the center of my apartment complex for her to enjoy the sun.