Like Karen said, overgrown beaks that are not deformed are always associated with dietary issues, most especially with ekkies. Whether it's that you are feeding him too much protein or that he, in particular, needs even less protein than most ekkies as Kimba's conure did, is irrelevant, something is off and it's not going to go away by itself. Karen is also correct that although nails and beaks are both made of protein, it doesn't necessarily mean that both will become overgrown when the diet is off or that, if they do, we will notice (nails do wear out easier than beaks and we are used to trimming them all the time).

As to avian medicine been in its infancy, yes, Leigh, you are correct but avian vets still know more than any of us do and it's just a matter of finding one that inspires trust and has the right bedside manner. You have, obviously, not been lucky at this but that doesn't mean that there aren't any out there, it's a matter of finding one that you like.

And, please understand that I don't mean to be offensive to anybody here but guardians gut feelings and a token will get you in the subway. Again, please don't take this the wrong way but I have heard this sentiment so many times and so many times with disastrous results... The truth is that we think we know them intimately but, in reality, we don't. They are not our children even if we love them as much and our 'gut feelings' can only be translated into human needs and not avian. We simply do not have a valid point of reference when it comes to birds needs because our physiologies are just too different, and what 'feels' right to us might not be right for the birds. It is also almost impossible to accurately judge overall health in a bird without tests and whenever anything, even the most minute thing, is off, a big red flag should be raised in our minds and a good explanation/solution needs to be found for it asap.

Now, I am not saying this is the kind of emergency where you would run out the door for a vet clinic but, please, understand that this is reason for serious concern. If the beak is overgrown (and, according to what you mentioned before, this has been happening for some time now and that adds to the urgency because the longer a problem goes untreated, the worse it gets), there is a 99 % chance that he is consuming too much protein (and hope for this 99% because the other 1% could be a metabolic disorder or congenital liver malfunction). If he is consuming too much protein, his liver is suffering and becoming 'fatty' (if you ever look at a fatty liver from a necropsy you would understand why they call it 'fatty', there are actually globs of fat throughout the entire liver replacing healthy tissue which forces the liver to keep on growing and growing trying to compensate until it cannot function any more). And, as birds livers are one of their weakest points, one doesn't want to fool around with them.

I know for a fact how much you love your birds, Leigh, and I know that you have their best interest at heart but, please, do not let yourself be convinced that nothing is wrong because of pictures of other ekkies (by the way, that couldn't possibly be the picture of a wild ekkie -they just don't interact with other species in the wild, imprinting takes care of that), by anybody's opinion (not even my own), or by your 'feelings'. All these arguments are way too questionable and unreliable for comfort. Please, I beg you, do research on your own, not only in the net (make sure the opinion is written by a professional and not just an ekkie owner) but also from avian medicine manuals, you'll see that an overgrown beak is not something to dismiss lightly.

Bea, thanks for taking time to go into such detail. I really do appreciate everyones words here and Im taking it all to heart. Heres the truth. I have anxiety and sometimes worry over nothing. Things wake me up at 4AM and I lay there worrying. Occy is one of my worries. So Im arguing with myself internally over this and trying to not have one more worry run my mind. And Ill be honest again that part of me is saying, why go to the vet and drop $300 easy just to finfd out he needed a $10 trim by people who I already trust. Im not putting a dollat sign on that little boys head, but lets face it. In todays economy, we have to spend wisely. I ultimately feel in my heart he is healthy and Im just worried. But I am startimng to really home in on the discussion of diet.Ill admit I need help with that. I do feed him a pellet BLEND. Not straight up pellets though. Everyday he gets fresh food. For example today was the beans, rice, barley with fresh veggie mix. Some days its yams or sweet potatoes, mixed veggies, or fresh mixed greens being kale, collard greens, mustard greens, boc choy, red cabbage, escarole. At night they all get a treat bowl of a select nut that I try to mix up every night. A few pistachios one night, the next 2 pecans, the next a walnut, the next a few almonds. On occasion Ill let him have a little piece of french fry if we are eating that but nothing big, just a nibble. What part of all that is the protein? The pellets?

Primarily the beans and pellets would have the most, and it might not mean that he is getting too much protein, but rather not enough Vitamin A. That was crayons problem, once she got a butt load of B complexes all was fine. But it took more Bs than you would ever feed a parrot as well as some other things. Pellets were her worst enemy for whatever reason, give her a pellet and watch her beak grow. I don't know what the pellets did it, protein, preservatives????? But once the diet changed so did the beak.

ok, so maybe I should cut back on the pellets then. Cause he doesnt get beans everyday. Ill make a batch maybe every other week that lasts a few days. He gets other stuff in between. What are sources of A & B ?

Leigh, there is a list of A foods at this link;

The "A" List

The Health, Holistic & Nutrition Forum has a lot of good threads in there about nutrition.

Also over on Yahoo Feeding Feathers in the file section an Ekkie breeder posted in detail the diet she feeds. If you need the link, send me a PM.

Thanks Karen. He gets a good number of those things with the fruit being in season. I hope to go to the farm this weekend to pick up Jersey Canteloupe and Watermelon. He likes that. I have mango I keep frozen. And speaking of which I found an easier way to handle Mango. Ill post a thread.

Oh good! I still have my days that I can't cut a Mango to save my life and other days it turns out perfect!

Thanks everyone I'm learning a lot. I think there will be more to this thread as we hear how Occy is doing.

Karen that is an excellent link [re nutrition i & ii] - I think you posted it before but I am really reading it this time. There is so much in there to absorb!

Beans, nuts, pellets, seeds, even brown rice, barley and birdy bread have protein. The trick is not to give him the same food you give the others. If the others get three pistachios, give him just one small one; if the others get one piece of veggie, give him two. In a nutshell, an ekkie's diet consists of low protein, low fat, poor nutrition (pellets have way too many vitamins for ekkies) and LOTS of fiber. I know it sounds funny to say that a bird stays healthier with less vitamins but that's the way it is with ekkies. Precursors are fine (like betacarotene) but fat soluble vitamins in their final form are not and those are the only vitamins you find in pellets. Especially vitamin A and D which excess is, again, stored in the liver in the form of fat.

I put together a recipe for fatty liver gloop in my website, go check it out. It has suggestions for herbs that tonic and cleanse the liver, also. It can't hurt him and it will most likely help him a lot.

And if you bring a bird with an overgrown beak to a vet and he tells you all the bird needs is a trim, look for another vet because that one is no good.

Hi Leigh, I ran into this site and thought it migh helpful to you.

Eclectus Diets