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Old 02-22-2008, 04:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: To allow to nest, or not to allow to nest?

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Originally Posted by FeathersNFur8 View Post
I avoid anything that will trigger a breeding response from my companion 18 year old GreenWing hen. Learning from past experiences as to what will solicit an immediate breeding response from her; there are no cardboard boxes, no blankets to burrow into, no playing on the sofa, no access to dark little spaces, no petting down the back or under the wings, etc. I am guilty of making diet mistakes that have triggered hormonal responses and am learning what to cut back on and when.

But despite avoiding all I know how to avoid, when I know she’s becoming reproductive I have found we get through the process and it's not immediately repeated if I provide what she needs to facilitate her so that she's comfortable and prepared to pass eggs. I also let her complete the sitting process and try to keep it as stress free as I can for her. We had some extenuating circumstances with her when she first came to live with us and we learned that when she did not complete the cycle and sit on her eggs, she repeated the process much sooner than what was healthy for her.

This may be of some help to someone so I'll explain what happens with my GreenWing and what I do here;

Eggs don’t appear out of the blue, so I have time to prepare. A few days preceding the actual egg I will start to see messy large droppings with an excess of urine, broody behavior, aggressiveness, reluctance to leave her cage, tail pulling, weight gain, and loss of appetite to name a few. I know her habits pretty well now. When I see the above signs, I supplement Calcium. I don’t supply a box of any kind, as the size I would need to accommodate her tail would take up her entire cage bottom. I remove the grate in her cage (She will not poop in her cage) I line the tray with brown Kraft paper. I put bottlebrush and other hardwood chewing items toward the bottom of the cage. Oddly, the only time she will chew on wood is when she is sitting on eggs. She also will shred the layers of paper. I supply an extra heat source by her cage until she’s done laying eggs.

I can pin point the night she will pass her first egg as she will not be interested in her dinner at all. She will lay an egg within 20-30 minutes of quiet and lights out. Which means she has actually been having contractions before that time which I attribute to her missed dinner on that evening. She lays every 72 hours. Once I’m able to visually see the contractions the actual process for her to push the egg out does not take long at all. Sometimes the shell of the egg will be lightly streaked with some blood. I always check the egg carefully to see if it’s broke or if there are any thin spots on the shell. She has laid as many as four eggs, but I usually only keep two in the cage for her to sit on. I don’t know why but she doesn’t seem to care if she sits on her first egg and is usually quite content to carry on as if she never had an egg. It isn’t until she’s laid the second egg that all the instincts kick in and then all she wants is her eggs. When she is sitting on eggs I put her food and water dish within her reach.

She allows me to remove her from her cage every few hours so she can eliminate. If she’s comfortable I will leave her out. If she gets anxious I return her immediately. Per my AV’s instructions, I now watch the calendar during this process. If she doesn’t give up her eggs in 4 weeks time, I remove everything and she immediately returns to her normal behavior.
There's something else I wanted to mention. Kita's sleep cage, which is a normal size cage (30X40), is in a secluded area where there are no intruders, other pets, activity or anything that would stress her.

I feel it would not be in the best interest of the bird, if their cage is in the middle of the activity in the home, to set them up with no privacy or security to sit on eggs.
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Old 02-22-2008, 10:41 PM   #22
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Default Re: To allow to nest, or not to allow to nest?

Karen, you are totally intuative and intentive to Kady's needs as much as a pet owner can be. We can only be attentive and assist our pets while in reproductive situations such as Kady. I can only imagine what you are dealing with during this time. My heartfelt thanks to you for taking Kady in and providing her with a forever home with the love and care she deserves. Thank you.
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:26 PM   #23
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Default Re: To allow to nest, or not to allow to nest?

I allow all my birds to choose what they want to do. They are not in cages (so there is no cage=nest connection in their brains), they are kept to a strict natural daylight schedule with full exposure to dawn and dusk (ALL birds are photoperiodic and will only lay when the days are long enough unless their endocrine system is screwed up from irregular light hours schedules and no twilight exposure), and they are all flighted. I keep my birdroom at around 68 to 70 degrees in the winter and I lower the temperature to 63 for the nights. I also reduce the protein, corn, tender greens and fruits right after the end of molt so as to make their diet more 'winter-like'. In the spring, I switch them to a richer diet with lots of spring greens and, as the season progresses, they get more fruits than veggies. I have good full spectrum lights overhead and give them a good, healthy diet with a bit of calciboost and vitamins on the side and they have mineral blocks and cuttle bones laying around the birdroom.

If they want to nest, they need to look for and find a place where they can build their own nest, same as they would in the wild, I don't supply boxes but they find spots nonetheless. There is plenty of alfalfa on the ground and lots of other natural stuff they can use as nesting material (plant leaves, branches, sisal rope, etc) so, although I don't actually encourage their nesting, I don't discourage it either. I just make them work for it and, if they want it bad enough, they can do it and most of them do every year (budgies, tiels, lovies, doves, canaries, toos and this year, the mini macaws also -haven't had an amazon or a grey laying yet). I don't allow any real breeding because I switch all the eggs with plastic ones but that doesn't seem to faze them or even frustrate them, they just abandon the nest and the eggs after a while, clean house and start a new one. Depending on the species, this happens two or three times during the breeding season and once mid summer is here, the whole thing is over. Very naturally, very easily, no drama. I believe that suppressing natural biocycles is not healthy in the long run and that breeding is not as stressful as the frustration of not been able to, at least, go through the motions year after year after year.

So far, it has worked for me. I don't have a single chronic layer in the bunch and have never, ever (knock on wood!) had an eggbound hen or an off-season layer or even a single soft-shelled egg.
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Old 02-25-2008, 03:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: To allow to nest, or not to allow to nest?

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Very naturally, very easily, no drama. I believe that suppressing natural biocycles is not healthy in the long run and that breeding is not as stressful as the frustration of not been able to, at least, go through the motions year after year after year.

So far, it has worked for me. I don't have a single chronic layer in the bunch and have never, ever (knock on wood!) had an eggbound hen or an off-season layer or even a single soft-shelled egg.
This was exactly my point with my post. But since most people do not have the set up that you do, a simple cardboard box that can be easily destroyed before it becomes an instrument of aggression and territory, allows them this natural bio-cycle.
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