This can be so frustrating. I see people with Amazons, other breeds for that matter, and everyone is having a good time. Playing, interacting. I know I need patience and I have great patience, but I am just so absolutely dad-blamed, gosh durn, dagnabbit, doggone, everlasting, absofrigginlutely tired of this PERCH BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She's not afraid of the perch. she just don't want on it. bottom line. she hates it, no gettin round it. You can lure her there with a grape, a nut or a male amazon in a thong and if she don't wanna get on the stoopid perch, she'll just stand there and stare. Sometime even laugh.
I read, and read some more. I've clicked and clicked and clicked. How can I have the patience to teach a bird to pick up a shower curtain ring and bring it to me, ring a bell, wave and I can't get her to STEP ON A PERCH!!!!
She'll nibble pretty hard (not a friendly beaking) on my hand and growl like a warning if I try to get her to step up on my wrist.
Thing is I just want to simply transport her safely! Just room to room if needed, and then I want to get her vetted. I can't even get that done.
Don't get me wrong, if the moons are aligned, she's slept well, not having hormones, has her makeup on right, I"m not wearing a red shirt, there is a grape involved and it's after 3 oclock in the evening and the barometric pressure is to her suiting, she'll get on the perch and ride the house.
But..if she don't want to ....she ain't gonna do it. Bottom line.
Like today, she's been in the cage all day long, I get home, let her out, we play, hang out, laugh do ring tricks on her cage and I leave her alone. Then, thinking I'll take her into another neutral area to work awhile with her on getting on my hand, I do get her on the perch, finally, and we go. We play, she nibbles on my hand, rolls around, lets me scractch her a lot, we tug of war with a Kleenex, listen to the radio, hangout awhile. Then, when I get ready to "go home", she has nothing to do with the perch. Even with a grape. She ain't gettin on it. I walk away, come back, no sir. nada.
Finally, I walk away and stay gone bout 7 or 8 minutes and IN SHE FLIES TO HER CAGE!

I'm not looking for advice. Mostly just e-venting from a stubborn birds. Zons are known for it.
And to let all of you people with nice lil tamed birds that you have on your shoulder, ride on your motorcycles with you, take to the shower, sit outside with, take to other friend's homes and EASILY enjoy each other, you have a special blessing...enjoy every minute of it.
Oh..I have no doubt I'll get Baby perch trained at some point. We'll have major fun, hang out. It'll take a long time and a lot of patience and God's very own hand reaching down.
BUt..won't I look cute, in ward B3 in the nursing home, shouting:
SHE IS ON THE PERCH!!! FINALLLY>>>>>>>>
Mark
Oh..don't tell me to get a puppy. I LOVE birds. I am just frustrated and unless you've dealt with a stubborn bird, it's hard to understand. But...I still love her and she loves me, despite all of this, we'll make it thru it. I don't reprimand her. I haven't lived thru 24 years of marriage, 2 kids and 20 years of being an RN without patience.

I guess baby is putting her foot down and saying no daddy enough is enough !!

Ahh Mark, I feel your pain, but I am glad to see you've kept your sense of humor. Some days it is one step forward, two steps back even for those that ride a shoulder and take a shower. At least it is with my two. Some days I spend an awful lot of time talking them into a good mood.

Keeping a daily journal may help. On those bad days it helps to look back and read just how far the both of you have come. I think what you've been able to do so far has been amazing.

Mark, I know exactly what you're talking about. In spades. Try it with a 20 year old male DYH who is definitely not afraid to go for amputation if you tick him off! Sometimes I almost cry, thinking about how much I'd like to be able to do more with him; handle him, scritch him without the bars between us, etc. But the bottom line is that we are the ones who have to adapt ourselves to suit them, for the most part. Most of the time I'm ok with it, and can laugh about it. But it hurts not being able to get through to them and gain their trust. In his case, I don't know that I'll ever get that. I know that he comes from an abusive past, was probably never tamed, and when you combine that with what is probably the hottest of the "hot three" personalities....well, I'll just have to settle for what I can get. I couldn't leave him where he was, though that wasn't part of the abusive past, but he was no longer wanted there, and where would he go? Not many people up in this neck of the woods that would cope with a well adjusted Tiel, never mind a maladjusted Zon.

Sorry Mark, didn't mean to hijack your thread and drone on about my own "problem child", but believe me, I'd love to be as far along with Chico as you are with Baby. You're doing a fantastic job with her.

I read your post and laughed but yet related. I have two budgies that love each other but not me. I belong to a budgie forum and read about all these budgies who snuggle, play, talk, land on fingers from across the room, etc., etc. My guys and I are so far from that so I know what you mean.

I have 4 zons, 3 tame. (The 4th was parent raised to be a breeder & was purchased as a mate for one of my males.) The BF male has always been flighted. I tried clipping him when I first got him (he was a rehome) but that Really upset him! I've let him grow his wings back out. He is definitely less willing to step up at will than the 2 who are not used to being fully flighted. I don't know how long yours has been flighted, but that might have something to do with the unwillingness to step up. (Not suggesting you deprive the bird of flight, though.) My other 2 males are Lilac Crowns (not among the "hot" zon temperments) and they both step up perfectly willingly. Neither of them was used to being flighted when I got them. They can fly now but mostly don't choose to. I don't know if their willingness to step up well is related to not being flighted all those years, but it might be.

So I have 2 zons who step up perfectly, no nipping even. But none of my 4 will play like yours does. Sounds to me like you actually have a fabulous relationship with your bird! For a BF to be that social & tame & sweet sounds wonderful, to me! If she won't step up when you want her to that sounds like a pretty minor problem really, especially compared to the many disposition issues that can arise with amazons. Of the possible "problems" with an amazon it doesn't really sound like you're doing badly at all with your bird. Sounds like you've done a great job getting her trust & cooperation, in every area except the stepping up.

Maybe she doesn't like the stick? You said she also growls when offered the wrist too, but maybe if you stuck with one or the other & trained her that way? I have one bird who was hit with a stick before she got to my home. I finally figured out that she would step up without biting if given the hand/wrist. But use a stick & she will try to carve up the person holding the stick. I'd suggest sticking with one method (wrist or stick) and not switching back & forth. You may find she prefers one method (or anyway hates one less than the other). Regardless I applaud your decision to let her fly! Amazons frequently have problems with weight, and their metabolism is designed for flight, so it's really important for them to fly!

I was wondering about that also. Some birds hate a hand held perch for several reasons. Mine scream (Kady moreso than Kita) if they see me with a perch in my hand. So they are both offered an arm or hand.

I love your posts Mark - I mean I absolutely empathize with your situation, but you're hilarious

I'm also wondering about alternate ways to get her away from her cage - would she step on a fairly small transportable gym or something similar? Or maybe use an exact same perch as she uses in her cage for her to step up onto? The stick, or the choice of stick, may indeed be where she's not comfortable.

Obviously the size difference and energy level is great between an amazon and a budgie, but my Winston also won't step up. But when I want him to go to another room I can "herd" him in the right direction and he'll fly to another room. It's been a give and take relationship with him too, he won't step up, yet he'll fly to me and land on me for treats.

Thanks everybody for the encouragement. It's probably harder for me cause all the birds I've ever had CAME to me hand tamed. Also, if she didn't cooperate with other stuff, I'd be inclined to think it's trust issues. But, it's not. The other day, she rolled over on her back on the bed and let me scratch her belly! Now, that's trust.
And the fact is she WILL get on the perch. She hates it, and I have to basically pray hard, burn an offering and bring her a bouquet of grapes to get her ON it. But, she will get on it when she wants....ride thru the house, and be happy pappy. But if she don't want to...she just won't. And...I have to learn to work with that.
One thing I've learned about people and the same holds true in this case: The thing you love the most about a person is the thing that will make you the most angry.
You can't turn off/on an Amazon's independent appeal and vocal ability just when it's convenient for you. They're amazing animals...very intense and incredibly smart. I go back to when the other Zon I had, Cecil, hated my wife. One day, he wooed her, stepped onto her hand, she was excited..thought she'd won him over. He happily walked her arm, sat on her shoulder.I went to get the camera, we were happy. The nano second my head was turned, he nailed her cheek, nearly got her eye, made her bleed and scream before I could get him off. It was bad. That's why I'll never let a zon on my shoulder or especially my sweet wife's shoulder. They're too intelligent and underestimated.
So...once again, thanks for all the support. You folks understand my frustration and actually, that's all I needed. Understanding and confirmation.
Have a great day!
Mark

Have you considered flight training her instead, so when she's not in the mood to step up, you can use flight commands? I worked with a BFA who I could do anything with, I could tie her in a knot and she wouldn't care, get her to step up on anything whether hand or stick, she turned into a completely different bird! Sadly she developed a phobia of stepping up, not of hands or hand held perches but actually stepping up. It was very sad. She would become so stressed out that she would sleep on the bottom of the cage puffed up like a sick bird for the rest of the day! So instead, I flight trained her, and she loved to be scooped up instead and held like a baby to transport her from place to place. As long as she didn't have to use her feet to perch on your hand or stick she was fine. I had to find alternate ways to work with her. And flight training really helped. Just a thought. But I sympathize with you.