So, All of my birds have lots of toys and perches all over the outside of their cages, and they are out more than they are locked inside, but I've always wanted to get a gym for them to play on as well, since I'm sure its more enriching to have different things and places to go and play on. My problem are a few things..... one, I have not much space in my apartment... so Is there such a thing as a gym that could be taken apart and put away fairly easily? second, can I get one that all of my birds could use (separatley) or will they not like the idea of other birds on it sent wise i guess? third what is the cheapest way? next month I plan on visiting a bird fair, I've never been to one before but I've heard you can find things relativley cheaper there... is that true? My very last question is unrelated to the above. My yelow nape, papi was a rescue and he was fully flighted when I got him. I nevre clipped his wings because I didnt want to change too many things to soon... Its been about 2 years now and were amazing friends. He doesnt fly really, but I would never dare take him outside without his wings clipped and he'll never wear a harness. Do you think it would change his temperment if I clipped his wings now? I've always clipped other birds from an early age and I dont want to lose his trust... but I would love to be able to bring him outside.... any thoughts or ideas? thanks guys

If I sound like a moron, just tell me, but I'm looking at playstands on line and I'm finding that metal ones are cheaper and some of them seem like they'd be easier to clean because they have grates and pans like cages. Any thoughts on that... I've always like natural stuff better, but.......

Here is a link to my thread about Ollie's (CAG) gyms: http://www.parrotchatter.com/f32/ollies-gyms-1509.html.

I've explained in that thread a little bit about each of them, but if you have any more questions feel free to ask. I really enjoy making gyms out of PVC. You can really be creative that way, and make something that you know your birds are going to use and enjoy. Plus, it's very cheap! Oh, and I make sure to not screw the PVC pipe together everywhere, at least so that it can be taken apart into slightly smaller pieces. I'm a college student, so her gyms have to be easy to move! PVC is very easy to work with. If you go all the way to the end of that thread, I've given instructions on how I made them.

As for birds sharing the gyms, I really can't comment as Ollie has these all to herself (my tiel lives back home with my parents). I do know that one thing to consider is the size of the gym perches. Gyms must be species appropriate, so if you have birds of varying sizes, then more than likely you will need gyms of different sizes as well. I don't think you should have a problem with them sharing, but if they don't get along then make sure not to put them on the gym together!

I really like the look of the natural stuff as well. Ollie's next gym is going to be something like those gorgeous Manzanita branch gyms. Her hanging bottlebrush does the trick for now though!

If you look through the Cages, Playstands and Accessories forum you will probably find more ideas for gyms.

There are a lot of views on clipping here. All 4 of my birds are flighted, and they will stay that way. I can't imagine what taking away their flight would do to them. There are a few members on here who have witnessed detrimental changes in their birds when they were clipped after being flighted, hopefully they will chime in. Would taking him outside in a travel cage be an option? That way he can still experience the great outdoors, but he won't have to lose his flight.

I would think if the gym was in a "neutral" area and everyone got to spend equal time on it, there wouldn't be a problem with them sharing it. But - I'm not 100% positive and I'm sure it would also depend on your birds' personalities.

As far as bird fairs go - I guess it depends on the one you go to. I've always heard that things are cheaper at the fairs. I've only been to 1. Some things were cheaper - some things were a lot more expensive. (I remember the 1 vendor who had the most stuff was trying to sell normal gcc for $300!) It was a rather small fair though - so I would guess that at a larger fair where there was more competition - the prices would be pretty competitive.

Cheapest way is making one yourself out of pvc like Camille mentioned. I've also seen some that people made out of bird safe trees. I've made a table top gym and a standing gym out of pvc. They were cheap and fun to make - and the birds seem to like them.

Bird.com - Toys, Treats, Cages Gayla has this gym for her sun conure - and I know she's said that Pita likes it. (she's added quite a bit to it to make it more fun - there's all kinds of accessories you can get for them - including more natural perches) I've heard some others say their birds didn't like them - but if you set it up like Gayla did hers (I'm sure there's pics of hers somewhere around here!) I can't imagine a bird not liking it! Plus - for the price they have them at now - it sure would be worth a try! I have heard they are extremely easy to clean!

I have 2 of Wayne's bottlebrush gyms (Kirby has one of the standing gyms, the conures have a hanging gym). The birds love them and so do I! I think they look nice and are made very well. The birds love to chew on the wood - but it holds up well, even with their chewing. I don't consider them to take up a huge amount of space - plus Wayne will work with you to make the best gym for you and your birds. Here's a link to Wayne's site Home Page. Bottlebrushstuff.com, manufacturer of Bottlebrush Parrot Play Gyms, parrot perches, toys, and more.

As far as the clipping, etc. I have had my birds flighted and clipped. I've never noticed a huge neg. effect on them after clipping them - but then again - mine have never been flighted for that long like your amazon has been. So that might very well make a difference. Even with mine clipped - I'm not comfortable with taking them outside without either some type of harness - or in a cage of some sort. There's enough "clipped" birds that get spooked and get away from their owners - so I'm just not comfortable taking the risk. My birds seem to enjoy being outside in a cage. The ones that are willing to wear a harness - actually seem to enjoy being outside in a cage more than they do being out with a harness on. I think the cage gives them a sense of security out there. But that's just my experience with my birds - and others may be different.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that clipping your bird makes it safe to take them outside without a harness! Clipped birds have been known to catch a gust of wind and manage enough altitude to get out of sight. Then they face the increased danger of being unable to fly away from ground predators. I can't imagine harnessing a Zon either, but would definitely recommend taking him out in a travel cage.

With regard to playstands, I've never noticed any reluctance on a bird's part to use a playstand because another bird has been on it. Not saying it couldn't happen, but they don't seem to be wired that way. If they see another bird on it, that makes it even more desirable!