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Health, Holistic & Nutrition Discuss issues relating to illness, disease, injuries, preventative care and nutrition of your bird.

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Old 06-30-2008, 10:36 AM   #1
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Default Moderation in your birds diet.

Moderation in your birds diet.
Offering fully cooked meat to your Parrot in moderation will not harm your bird.
Here in our aviaries we have offered our birds fully cooked meats for well over 19 yrs now.
All our birds are seen by our vet on a regular basis, when speaking with our vet concerning what to offer our birds and what not to offer our birds as far as human food, Chocolate and Avacodos along with Shell Fish was top on the list of items (never to give a parrot) when asked about meats, our vet stated "well cooked meats are okay to feed parrots in moderation".
Fact, many species of Parrots enduldge in raw meats in the wild, I would never advise anyone to offer your pet bird raw meat, but please know almost every species do eat raw meat in the wild when raw meat is found.
As with all seeds and pellets and basically anything you offer your bird to eat can and will be dangerous if not offered in moderation.
A few sun flower seeds now and then will NOT harm your bird, many of these seeds offered each and everyday will place your bird in bad health, this is just an example of Moderation.
Moderation used when feeding your parrot friend will assure there good health and yes Meat (fully cooked) is on that menu.
An all pellet diet is not good for your bird, more and more vets are pointing this out to there clients, again the use of Moderation applies concerning this issue.
In the world of "we want the best for our birds to assure they live a healthy LONG life" please try and remember, Moderation.

Here are some links that support my findings, here at BrokenWing Wildlife & Exotic & Pigeon Rescue & Rehab we have fed our birds (fully cooked meats) all our birds are very healthy and this is backed by our certified avian vet.

Diet or polly filler
Your parrot should be fed at least once a day, with tit-bits offered as available. Most pet shops sell "parrot mix" or possibly parrot pellets, but neither of these will form a complete diet. A good selection of fresh fruit and vegetables should also be offered every day. Peanuts if offered should be those sold for human consumption, as the ones sometimes sold in pet stores may be infected with a fungus which will lead to aflatoxin poisoning. Anything that we eat can be offered in moderation including, cooked meat and bones, also cooked fish, tinned fruit, cheese, plain biscuit, etc. Chocolate however should not be given, also avocado which is poisonous to birds.
The link
Pet Parrots

The parrot will also need a water bowl with fresh water supplied twice a day. You need to clean the water and the food bowl each time you refill it to keep your parrot healthy and happy. The parrot will eat fruits, nuts, vegetables and cooked meat and grains. Make sure you give him a balanced diet and give him healthy snacks only. The parrot likes to be fed in many small meals instead of having one large meal a day. Pre-packaged parrot food is good for the parrot too since it will contain the correct mixes of minerals and vitamins. Make sure that you give the parrot fresh food at least twice a day and keep it clean and bacteria free. Seeds and nuts should be fed to the parrot sparingly since these foods are fatty and contain few nutrients. Foods to avoid are caffeine, beans, avocado, heavily salted foods, alcohol and cocoa.
The link
Taking care of parrots

ANIMAL PROTEIN SOURCES: Cooked meat (red meat, poultry, fish, etc.), dog/cat kibble, cooked eggs (yolk and white), cheese, cultured milk products (cottage cheese, yogurt, etc.). Raw and even pasteurized milk should not be offered because it contains coliform bacteria. Furthermore, many caged birds are sensitive to milk sugar, which is present in milk but not in cultured milk products.
The link
Rutherford Animal Hospital



Bird Feeding: Large/Small Birds


Large Caged Birds: Larger caged birds (conures, parrots, cockatoos, macaws) should be fed as follows:

1. Seeds and seed mixes should not constitute more than 20% of what your bird consumes daily.

2. 80-100% of the daily diet should be comprised of table food items:

* Animal Protein Sources: Cooked meat (red meat, poultry, fish, etc.), dog/cat kibble, cooked eggs (yolk and white), cheese, cultured milk products (cottage cheese, yogurt, etc.). Raw and even pasteurized milk should not be offered because it contains coliform bacteria. Furthermore, many caged birds are sensitive to milk sugar, which is present in milk but not in cultured milk products.
* Whole Grain Products: Dry cereals, cooked cereals, rice, uncooked oatmeal, granola, breads (whole wheat in particular), muffins, pasta (cooked or uncooked), crackers.
* Nuts, Trail Mix: In moderation (nuts are rich in oils and fats).
* Fruits and Vegetables: Fresh, frozen-thawed or canned are all acceptable. Fresh fruits and vegetables are the most nutritious. (Remember, When birds eat a lot of fleshy fruits and vegetables, they excrete excessive fluids in the form of urine which is normal and to be expected. This increased urine in the dropping is polyuria, not diarrhea).
The link
Feeding Large/Small Birds: Protein, Whole Grains, Nuts, Fruits, Vegetables
(we offer our smaller parrots fully cooked meats in Moderation).

The Caique
Cooked foods. There are a number of foods that need to be cooked before they are served. For example, all meats that you serve your caique should be cooked for some of the same reasons we do this for human consumption, i.e., to prevent disease, release nutrients, etc.
The link
Feeding

What about people food?
Follow the general rule discussed above and your common sense. Some birds even enjoy a small amount of lean meat, cheese or egg occasionally. Dairy products should be consumed in strict moderation. It would only be common sense that junk food and alcoholic beverages be avoided.
The link
Bird Care Library at Harmony Animal Hospital's World of Pets: Laugh, learn, share and explore.

In the case of the wild Quaker Parakeet, Forshaw reports that they eat, among other things, insects and their larvae. In Argentina, they are known to eat meat left hanging in the trees to dry by local inhabitants.
The Link
HolisticBird and HolisticBirds

Bone marrow is good for your bird (using Moderation).

As always it is up to you (the reader) to decide whats wrong and whats right for your bird.
Here in our aviaries, we do our best to duplicate there diets in the wild, one won't find pellets in the wild, but one will find raw meat, and fully cooked meat, does this mean we do not offer our birds pellets, NO, we offer MODERATION.
And fully cooked meats is on that menu!

Consult your Avian Vet concerning meats being offered to your bird.

Arty aka BrokenWing
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Old 06-30-2008, 03:51 PM   #2
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Default Re: Moderation in your birds diet.

Ruby LOVES chicken wings and little piece of steak.
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Old 06-30-2008, 04:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Moderation in your birds diet.

The aviary of ringnecks kills and eats any small frog or lizard that gets into the cage. They also enjoy meal worms. No insect lives too long.

The suns think meal worms are disgusting but will share any cooked meat from our plates. Peanut quite likes eggs and toast.
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Old 06-30-2008, 06:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Moderation in your birds diet.

Arty...you are ever a source of knowledge. You continue to educate me on a regular basis. We try to provide a very similar diet to what you have described here. I too feed small amounts of well cooked meats, and the girls LOVE it. Especially turkey for some reason.

Thanks Arty...you are a wealth of knowledge and I very much appreciate all the time and effort you put into helping us all learn to be better parronts...I admire you very much,
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Old 07-02-2008, 09:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: Moderation in your birds diet.

I don't mean to be disrespectful, Arty, but I don't agree with feeding meat to parrots. Many years ago, it was a common practice to do this and some people have continued it even when it became in disuse. And, actually, many years ago the only way to keep a parrot semi-healthy was to offer him meat every now and then for the simple reason that there were no supplements and, as it was thought that just seeds and an occasional apple was good enough, the birds needed the vitamins only found in meat. People found that birds that ate meat occasionally did better than the ones that ate only seeds so they figured that meat was the answer but we know much more about their feeding ecologies and their physiological needs now than we did then.

Do parrots eat meat in the wild? Yes, they eat anything that has high protein in it. Nature gave them a craving for protein because it's necessary for breeding and not found in high concentrations in vegetables. Are they likely to get meat in a regular basis? No, of course not. Parrots are not predators, Nature did not give them the senses, the claws or the beaks for it. They can only eat an animal killed by another one very recently (meat decays very fast) and how many fresh kills could they possibly find that are not been eaten by the predator that kill it in the first place or by the usual scavengers? Because these same predators and these same scavengers would not think twice about eating a parrot, too! That simple fact makes it very clear that eating meat in the wild couldn't possibly be a regular thing for a parrot.

There are birds that are considered omnivores (chickens and crows are an everyday example) but parrots have never been catalogued as such and, when you read about their natural diet, it never includes meat, it's always fruits, grains, seeds, blossoms, buds, nectar, etc.

Besides, it's a known fact that meat in USA is full of chemicals, antibiotics, hormones and all kinds of nasties, why risk giving your bird such a highly tainted food when it's not even part of their regular natural diet?

Yes, it was something that was done in the past and, back then, it was actually healthier to offer them a bit of meat every now and then than not to -people were feeding dog, cat and monkey food to parrots for the same reason- but we don't need to do that any longer. We have all kinds of good, organic sources of vegetable protein and excellent supplements. We don't need to improvise.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: Moderation in your birds diet.

Quote:
Besides, it's a known fact that meat in USA is full of chemicals, antibiotics, hormones and all kinds of nasties, why risk giving your bird such a highly tainted food when it's not even part of their regular natural diet?

Yes, it was something that was done in the past and, back then, it was actually healthier to offer them a bit of meat every now and then than not to -people were feeding dog, cat and monkey food to parrots for the same reason- but we don't need to do that any longer. We have all kinds of good, organic sources of vegetable protein and excellent supplements. We don't need to improvise.
You make several good points Bea. Things have changed, some for the better some not. We shouldn't even be eating meat unless it's organic. It can't be healthy for anyone or anything with the chemicals and drugs that are in it. Monkey Biscuits that were once fed to Parrots have changed also. Just as we've learned a bit about Avian nutrition the same can be said for Primates. The Biscuits are now filled with the Vitamin D that primates need and that amount of Vitamin D can be harmful to our birds, especially Macaws.
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: Moderation in your birds diet.

I seriously think on depend on the species you keep. Vasa's will take on the predator role if necessary. But also certain Too's and Macaws do eat high protein sources and often in the wild, they eat insects and larvae. And the Kea does eat meat in the form of animals, that has been documented, they also eat worms, insects and larve ,and the same with the Too's (with the exception of animal protein) and certain species but NOT most macaws. The kaka eats a large amount of insects and larve, and goes to the extent of stripping bark off of trees to get at the insects. As for the rest...amazons, conures and such there has been no documentation , to my knowledge, of them eating animal protein in the wild. The difference in insects is not the protein as insects are PACKED with protein, but they lack the fat and cholesterol of animal protein. It is a more pure source of protein. And protein is protein whether it is from animal or not as long as it is complete protein. Honestly I don't see the difference between organic chicken, and a complete protein made up of lentils and such. So if you give your bird lentils and beans on a regular basis, what exactly is the difference that makes beans ok and lean organic chicken not? Not to be rude, but I think that's why the articles stress the term moderation.
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:17 AM   #8
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Default Re: Moderation in your birds diet.

I was mostly referring to the more common species of psittaforms kept as pets like grays, ekkies, zons, etc. and not the unusual exceptions like vasas.

But to answer your question as to what the difference between protein from vegetable sources and protein from an organic, lean chicken is, well, there are lots of differences:

a) saturated fat and cholesterol is always found in animal protein but never in vegetable (yes, even in a lean, organic chicken);
b) iron in animal flesh is an oxidant but iron in vegetables is not (the oxidant iron causes cholesterol to deposit in your arteries, the other one doesn't)
c) the fiber,
d) the antioxidants and
e) the phytonutrients found in vegetables that are not found in meat.
f) people with cyrrhosis are told to eat vegetable protein instead of animal to protect the liver as much as possible and we all know how delicate birds' livers are so it stands to reason that if it's better for people (omnivorous) with weak livers, it should be de rigeur for birds (herbivores) that are consuming an unnatural diet
g) doctors have found that vegetable protein decreases blood pressure but animal protein does not
h) all protein is made of amino acids but while animal protein contains all essential amino acids, vegetables don't. Some have one kind and some have another and species have evolved to need some more than others, according to their natural diet.
i) BVs (Biological Values = proportion of protein retained in the body for maintenance and or growth) are different in animal and vegetable protein
j) animal protein causes more calciuria (calcium in urine which turns into kidney stones) than vegetable protein

As you can see, there are a lot of differences and some of them are pretty important because they affect liver and kidney functions.
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:05 AM   #9
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Default Re: Moderation in your birds diet.

Human beings do not need to ingest meat in the large amounts that most Americans consume. We have the ability to synthesize our own protein, and a little bit of ingested animal protein goes a long way. Many people are actually killing themselves with the sheer amount of animal protein they consume.

It stands to reason then, that most parrots require even less. I will give my birds the occassional little bit of egg, but their protein intake is largely limited to lentils. Even beans are too much, I think.
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:41 AM   #10
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Default Re: Moderation in your birds diet.

I agree completely, I've read however that protein deficiencies are the 3 rd most founded deficiencies in captive parrots. And I think it becomes confusing for people, as protein is an important part of any diet, that is not to mean it should be the main part, but it still needs to be there. And most of the threads regarding protein, come across as protein is evil and should be avoided at all costs. I think that is dangerous, especially when the start of this thread was about moderation. Any nutrient in excess is bad, just as a lack of any nutrient is bad. Finding the balance for the species you keep is my main point. And I know from my Doctors that their are certain things you get from animal protein that you will not get else where. I'm not saying give your parrot a hamburger, but a small piece of turkey, fish, chicken once in a while is not going to hurt them. And Fish is a great source of Vitamin D, something most people struggle to give their birds. Vasa's have a very high requirement for D, So in addition to being outdoors daily, he get fish, and eggs in the winter. Other Parrots like Ekkies should not have meat. Which brings me back to my point. And that is tailor your birds diet to it's species, some will require more protein, while others do not. And if in moderation, I don't see the harm in a small piece of animal protein for certain species once in a while.
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